Meet The Pro: Greg du Toit

Meet The Pro with Wildlife Photographer Greg du Toit. Join Toby Jermyn on the latest episode of the Pangolin Podcast featuring an in-depth conversation with award-winning wildlife photographer Greg du Toit. 

Here is a link to a gallery of Greg's images: https://pangolin.smugmug.com/SmugMug-Website/Website-Pages/Meet-the-Pro-Greg-Du-Toit

Win a signed copy of Greg's book, "Wilderness Dreaming". Answer this one simple question, and we will do a draw to see who the lucky winner is. 

Click here to see the question: https://link.pangolinphoto.com/Greg-du-Toit

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Discover Greg's exceptional journey through Africa's wild places, his unique in-camera style, and the stories behind his iconic photographs, including his thrilling accounts of sitting in waterholes and capturing intimate wildlife moments. 

Connect with Greg
https://www.gregdutoit.com/
https://www.instagram.com/wildernessdreaming/

GUEST IMAGE
by David Lloyd
https://davidlloyd.net/ 
https://www.instagram.com/davidlloyd/

Buy Greg's book: https://www.gregdutoit.com/african-wildlife-photographer-private-safari-guide-bio/wilderness-dreaming/

Tune in to hear about his inspiration, the importance of appreciating the little things in nature, and the fusion of artistry and photography. Plus, learn about the image he wishes he had taken himself and his favourite remote location in Ruaha National Park. Don't miss this insightful and inspirational episode with one of the finest wildlife photographers.

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Chapters

• 5:05 1st Image: The Beautiful Sunbird
• 13:20 2nd Image: The Migration Crossing
• 19:23 3rd Image: The Flower Crab Spider
• 26:52 4th Image: A Stunning Black and White Photograph
• 33:48 5th Image: David Lloyd

Transcript

Toby: Hello, and welcome to another brand new episode of the Pangolin Podcast.
I'm your host, Toby Jermyn. Thank you very much for joining me.

In each episode, I've invited a professional wildlife photographer to imagine themselves in a remote location and along with their camera gear, they're allowed to bring five photographs to hang on the wall of their humble dwelling.

Four of these must be their own, and the final image is one they admire by another photographer. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see the images as we talk. For audio listeners on other platforms, there is a link in the description to a gallery.

On today's show.

Greg: So when I go vertical, my elbow comes out the water, and as soon as I did
that, the game was up. Now they saw me; they noticed me. And now we're sort of two degrees south of the equator, so it's getting dark and it's just these two lionesses and me, and no one and nothing else around.

Toby: My guest today is a South African wildlife photographer, author, and private safari guide whose work is devoted almost entirely to Africa's wild places. He's renowned for his distinctive in-camera style and willingness to immerse himself for months in remote locations. He was named Wildlife Photographer of the Year in 2013 and has had his fine art collections exhibited from London and New York to Singapore. Through his images, books, and guiding, he channels a lifelong passion for Africa's wildlife, using photography to share the continent's raw beauty and to support on-the-ground conservation projects.

It is, of course, Mr Greg du Toit. Greg, welcome to the show.

Greg: Hi, Toby. Thanks for having me. 

Toby: It's an absolute pleasure. So you are the first Wildlife Photographer of the Year winner that we've had on the show. This will always be something. Another first that you can claim. So belated, congratulations on that.

Greg: No, thank you very much. I think I will forever be known as the guy that shot the blue elephants. 

Toby: You are the blue elephant guy, aren't you? That's it. I did some Googling. So here's a fact for you. There's been, I think, 65 people have won Wildlife Photographer of the Year, and 650 people have been to space. So 10 times more people have been to space than have won Wildlife Photographer of the Year.

So congratulations.

Greg: Wow. That's

Toby: There we go.

Greg: Cool.

Toby: Isn't it just? But tell me about the moment that you got told that you'd won it. I mean, this is every wildlife photographer's dream.

Where were you? What, how did this happen?

Greg: Yeah, I mean, you know, for me it really was a dream come true. I'd been entering the competition since about 2003. I'd placed in 2009, I'd placed in 2010. And then in 2013, I found myself in London, you know, there for the awards. And I noticed that, you know, I was being treated slightly differently to when I was being there before, but you're not supposed to know anything, of course. And they have a really grand function at the Natural History Museum in Kensington.

And about halfway through, just after the main dinner before dessert, the emcee just sort of casually came and stood next to me and then very casually said so, by the way, how do you pronounce your surname?

Just on the off chance. But of course you don't want to get carried away. So, sort of when they read the names you just kind of, sort of sit there hoping, and then when I heard my name. It was, yeah, it was amazing. And especially that year because there was a huge South African contingent there, and we were all seated at one table. So yeah, it was, it was fun to share it with a lot of friends and colleagues.

Toby: Maybe more fun for you than everyone else who didn't win at the table.

Greg: True, true.

Toby: Okay. Well, we'll tell you what we'll do is you give us those names, we'll get them all on the show. We'll ask them how they felt when you won it and find out from them instead. So now you are in a very different environment. You're in Hoedspruit at the moment, aren't you? How's the Hoed today treating you?

Greg: No, it's really good. I'm just about 20 minutes outside of town, on the Blyde River. Summer has arrived. We're hearing woodland kingfishers now. Pygmy kingfishers are here. All the cuckoos are just calling. It's getting light extremely early. But it's a fantastic time of year.

Toby: It's a lovely part of the world. For those of you who don't know. It's sort of in the Greater Kruger area up in the northwest Kruger National Park. And it seems to be home to a greater proportion of wildlife photographers than anywhere else in the world.

It's extraordinary.

Greg: Yeah, it's absolutely true. And the one thing about living in Hoedspruit is you must have a sticker on your car, and it must be something like wildlife, wild dog photographer, or you know, something really, really cool. And I don't have a sticker on my car, so I'm thinking of just getting one made, you know?

Toby: There we go. So say, "My trophy is in the other car," Wildlife Photographer of the year. Just going past them. You might find your car getting scratched quite often. I wouldn't do that. Maybe you shouldn't do it. Okay, Greg. Before we get carried away, let's start with your first image, shall we?

Greg: Yeah, sure. So the first one's a little Sunbird drinking. And I'm not sure if you've had anyone put a slide photo on yet on your podcast. But this is a slide. It's a Fuji Provia. So it's a thing called film. Those of you who don't know what film is, you can use ChatGPT to find out. And when I was looking at this photograph, 'cause I don't often look at my old film stuff, of course, but when you ask me this question: what four photographs would I put up in my house. That sort of sent me on a deep dive into my archives, and I was quite amazed at the quality of the shot,  considering it's film.

But it's a special shot just because it's from a very special time in my life. You know, some of the viewers won't know how I broke into the industry was I spent 16 months photographing one little waterhole in the South Rift  Valley of Kenya, close to Shompole. And this was, you know, 20 years ago. So there were no hides.

You know, the concept of underground hides didn't even exist then. And what I landed up doing to photograph the lions in the area, because they were free-ranging lions, living on community land outside of a national park or game reserve. Was I landed up sitting in the water eventually, waiting for these lions.

And some journalist worked out that I spent like 270 plus hours in the water. But while I was waiting for the lions, of course, there were lots of other things going on around the waterhole. And one day, this little female beautiful sunbird, the species is actually called a Beautiful sunbird. It's not an adjective. But it just popped down for a drink, and I didn't think anything at the time. It's a drab little bird.

It was just one of many that were drinking at the waterhole. I just took, like, a quick shot, and then carried on, waiting for the lions. But when I got that film developed, this shot was so special, and when the results of that 16-month project were
eventually published in the Africa Geographic magazine – it was a cover story.

But this was one of the shots they chose. So, it just goes to show we think
we know what the big shots are. You know, it must have claws, it must have jaws. You know, we must have got this adrenaline rush when we took the photograph.

But we really never ever know when a good photograph is going to present itself, and in what form it's going to come.

Toby: It's amazing, isn't it? So I dug out some stats, 'cause I love a good stat, and about 40% of our clients who come to see us have never been to Africa before. And they have this immediate bucket list of things that they need to see, otherwise their safari is not complete, which is great. But the photographs that they
often take home that they love the most are of subject matter, which wasn't on their list when they arrived, such as this.

And it's those moments, isn't it?

When you're watching a sleeping lion doing nothing for six hours, and you think to yourself, Okay, well, what else is there around me?

Suddenly, you start noticing other things.

So this project, so you're in Shompole, it's which year is this? And this is 20 years ago?

Greg: So, 20 So, it's 20 years ago, so 2004. Yeah, I'd heard lions roar at night
and I thought, well, cool, I'm just going to get a shot of these lion because these are really wild lions. I mean, you know, they're still living on community land. But these lions are strictly, strictly nocturnal. They've learned to avoid humans at all costs, you know, because the Maasai are herding their cattle during the day.

So my best chance was to get them drinking. So I dug a hole next to the
waterhole at first, and I put a little roof over it. And, I stand to be corrected.
But I think that might have been the first underground hide.

Toby: At Shompole?

Greg: No underground hide, period. Well, certainly in Africa.

Toby: There you go.

Greg: But yeah, I'm not sure about that. And I never knew it would become a thing at all. I just was trying to be practical about waiting at the water and not having my vehicle there to scare the lions away. So I jumped in this hole and after, you know, it was just a disaster. I mean, nothing came down to drink. And eventually, after like a year of trying to get the shot and my sort of wife, my patience and my wife's patience wearing thin. I jumped into the water just to escape the tsetse flies, and to try and have a break 'cause it's an incredibly hot part of Africa.

And while I was lying there, there was a male waterbuck that was so shy, I'd never, ever seen him drink. And he walked right in and drank. Right there while I'm lying there in the water. And then I realised, you know what, when I'm actually in the water, I think my scent is gone completely.

And I am pretty much invisible to the creatures. I've become one with that environment. So I filled the hole, closed the hide, and then I just started sitting in the water. And to say it worked is a complete understatement. I mean, everything came into drink as if I wasn't there. And eventually the lions as well.

So yeah, you know, just the life that little waterhole, 'cause it's, I mean, it's not big, it's about the size of a domestic swimming pool. The amount of life that little waterhole supported is absolutely astounding.

And it was just a time for me to build my portfolio and then eventually to get these lion drinking shots, which gave me my first magazine cover. Did an exhibition with National Geographic in London on the story.

So, just a fantastic time and great memories for me. So that's why I chose this little bird. And of course, I could have chosen a lion, but for me, you know, the secret about wildlife photography is to keep appreciating the little things.

Toby: There we go. That is the perfect first image.  Because yeah, I've been to Shompole, down there, and Will Burrard-Lucas, who we had on the show not too long ago, but he's now built a hide there. Yes, you were definitely before him.

You were definitely doing it in a much tougher way than he was. No offence, Will.

But sitting in the waterhole, you're sitting there. Tell me about the moment that finally, the lions are coming towards you, and you're lying in the water. You must only be three, four meters away from them.

What's going through your mind then?

Greg: Yeah, so I'm at first, I just sort of looked down, checked my camera settings. 'Cause remember I'm shooting film now, so I've got 30, like I could squeeze 37 frames out of a roll of film, and that's it. So I checked, and the light was already sort of low, so I pushed my film a stop. Which, in those days, was the equivalent of changing your ISO from 100 to 200. I mean, it's actually laughable if we think about that now. But that got me to shutter speed of 250.

And I was shooting with the original 80-400 mm lens. That was the first lens with vibration reduction technology in. And when I looked up, these two females were four meters away drinking. And I had completely underestimated what that would be like.

They are gigantic. I mean, their heads are just dwarfed by muscles. I mean, they look like bodybuilders that have been on steroids, you know? And I completely began shaking. I mean, I couldn't shoot at all. It was hopeless. And this is now, you
know, after 15 months. And nearly 16 months. The moment.

Yeah, the moments' there, and I mean, they're drinking its golden light.

It's boom. And I can't shoot because I'm shaking like this. It was, yeah.And it was a terrible feeling. And I just closed my eyes, took some deep breaths, probably said a prayer. And then eventually, I just tucked my elbows into my body, lifted my camera, and started shooting. And I took 26 frames, of these two drinking.

And then I wanted a vertical shot, and I've always tilted my camera anti-clockwise. So when I go vertical, my elbow comes out the water. And as soon as I did
that, the game was up. Now they saw me; they noticed me. And now we're sort of two degrees south of the equator, so it's getting dark, and it's just these two lionesses and myself, and no one and nothing else around. So, eventually, I had to make an exit from this waterhole, and I obviously lived to tell the tale.

But I wrote a book on this because it's, you know, it's a long story. 

Toby: It's an amazing story as well. And kudos to you, the dedication to do it really, you know, suffering for your art in a hole. That's marvellous. We'll touch on your books a little bit later on, but I think what we'll do is we can talk about this experience for so long, but I've realised that Bella, who's got to edit this is never going to be able to edit this down.

So let's move on to your second photograph, please. Would you tell the viewers what we're seeing here.

Greg: My second photograph is a shot of the migration crossing the Mara River. It's a black and white photograph, and it's taken at a slow shutter speed. So it's a motion blur photo. Now the migration is  a very well-known spectacle. And, it's been photographed, a gazillion times, I would say. But this photograph, not only would I have it in my house, I do have it in my house. And I literally printed this just a couple days ago and hung it up last night.

And it reminds me of just a very special trip. It was my 30th birthday. I remember that clearly. And I was camping in the Mara, and I saw that there was just this wonderful crossing with a very steep bank on the other side, and there were some sort of herds, sort of in the area. So I thought I'd just take a chance, and I just parked there, and I sat on my roof, and I just waited.

And eventually the wildebeest kept coming. One or two cars came past and thought, 'No, it's not going to happen.' And they left. And it was very nearly dark. And in that dusk, twilight time, one of those wildebeests jumped into the water.

And that's what you see right in the bottom corner, there. You see the head and the horns of one wildebeest. And the splash he made is the water going up, and the rest of the herd came charging down that bank.

And I was handholding this at 1/5, and I took, you know, I took the photo, not thinking that I would get anything because the light levels were so low. Got back to my campsite, made a little, a small fire sat around the fire and pushed play on my LCD because I'd gone digital by this stage, and saw this photograph, and it was the first time I'd really seen magic in a photo.

You know, I just saw something that transcends reality, and I'll never forget that feeling. And this was my first photograph that placed in the Wildlife Photographer of the Year in 2009. And I went to London my first time to Europe just to go to the award ceremony. And who arrives, walking down the aisle, Jonathan Scott. And Jonathan Scott's like, Mr Mara, you know, Mr Maasai Mara himself, and he walked over and he said, is this your photo?

So I was sort of starstruck, you know? I said, Yeah, yeah, it is. And he said, Oh, that's a really great photo. And when he said that, you know, that feeling I had, I thought, you know what? I can do this because it was my dream to become a professional wildlife photographer, and I was just sort of a fledgling. And I've been back to the Natural History Museum, I think, on about seven odd occasions now I've placed. But this was the first photograph, and I'll never, ever forget it for that.

Toby: It's brilliant. So tell me, talk me through, so your shutter speed was obviously slowed down 'cause you're losing light, or was this a deliberate decision to really capture motion? 

Greg: No, I think this was just a result of the low light and then having a pretty crap camera and lens. Because in these days, I mean, you know, I had an entry-level DSLR, it was a Nikon D200. I had an 80-400 mm lens, that was it. And so I had to keep my ISO on like 200. And, the corresponding shutter speed happened to be a fifth, and I just shot it. But there's a big lesson in that for me, 'cause a lot of times when I'm leading photo safaris, guests will say, Ah, you know, there's not enough light, and my ISO's going through the roof. You do reach a point where these sort of equipment has its limitations, and you've just got to go for it.

And I quite often do this, shoot with a slow shutter speed. You never know what you're going to get. And if you get something with a slow shutter speed, it's normally pretty special.

Toby: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And these are the kind of things you hang on a wall. This becomes art. It looks like you've drawn it. What's really unique about this is it's vertical. It's not taking in the expanse of the migration, as it were. It's a very unique, very small part of it.

Greg: Yeah, I mean, I've been back many times since, but never got a shot, you know, quite like this, of the crossing.

Toby: No. Well, the migration itself, I mean, with climate change, and I'm assuming it's climate change, but it's incredibly hit and miss now. Are you finding it more difficult now to predict, or go on a trip there?

Greg: Yeah, so I do do trips there. My last trip was there now. But I go more for the predators and kind of angle it for that. For me, the big thing about the migration. When I took this photograph, I was the only vehicle there. And now there's just, there's so many people and cars that it's become so tricky, and something I'm battling with, at this stage in my career, where I've been around for long enough to see significant change. I mean, it's kind of to stay positive about things, you know?

Like we call it the migration circus, and I know it got a lot of exposure this year on social media, and so I don't want to hop on about it, but, certainly, you know, to take this shot now would be difficult, yeah. I think it is very difficult.

Toby: I was hoping that, obviously, you know, that Kenya put up their park fees almost exponentially, and that was a mission to try and reduce the numbers coming through. Let's hope that will filter on in a couple of years, because I think it's unsustainable at the moment, unfortunately.

Greg: Yeah. Look, it's a beautiful place, honestly. You know, like, I was just there and it is honestly one of the most scenic, beautiful places in Africa. But just an idea that, you know that I think would really help with this crossing issue is, on the Kenyan side, or the Tanzanian side, they should build hides, and you have a parking area, and then you have a long sort of tunnel, and you can actually book a seat. And that can be on the traditional crossings where people can sit, and you can watch and photograph from there.

That would be a great way to control the numbers and also to earn even more revenue, you know, so they've got to do something.

Toby: I wish you all the best with the Kenya Wildlife Service and that business plan. I've done my bit. I put the idea out there. There we go. Can everyone else just make it happen? Thank you very much.

Greg: Yes.

Toby: And then put up a small statue of Greg DuToit, because it was his idea in the first place. Got it, right, we're on it.

Okay, brilliant. Listen, we are going to take a little break now. But when we come back, I want to talk to you more about the combination: artistry and photography. So we'll see you in a second. Welcome back to the Pangolin Podcast to the second part with my guest today, Greg du Toit.

And we are now onto the third image that he's chosen, which really stopped me in my tracks, Greg. Okay. Tell us what is going on here.

Greg: Well, I'm very glad to hear that, Toby. So this is a macro photograph of a flower crab spider that's grabbed a bee. But the reason I say I'm really happy to hear that was when my wife asked me, or I sort of volunteered to show her the four photographs that I would choose to hang up on my wall.

She was horrified with this photo. Not because she likes spiders, but she thinks it's really not one of my best. So I kind of had to explain to her, what this whole podcast was about. It's not about showing my best work. It's about the story behind the shot.

And this one's got really cool story for me. 

Toby: I mean, it's one of those photographs that you look at, and you go, Okay, I get it. And then you go, Oh, hang on, oh, hang on. I've learned a new phrase recently or it's a new thing, which is called. Do you know the punctum? There's two things. There's studium and punctum. The studium – I'm going to get this wrong, but I'm going to try and paraphrase it, but the studium is the general impression of what the photograph is trying to tell you. And the punctum is the thing that literally punctures something in you, that goes, Oh, hang on. It's the bit that makes it truly memorable that you might not have spotted right at the beginning. And this is full of punctum, punctum, punctum, punctum. Not sure how to pronounce it, but there we go. Okay, tell me the story behind this shot.

Greg: Yeah, so this shot for me, we were living in Ruaha National Park, but in a very remote part of the park in the deep south. So it was the remotest safari camp in East Africa. And, my wife and I were running the camp, and I was, of course photographing every opportunity I got. And we had this tiny little house, and in front of our house was just this sort of dirt. It was just a sort of a dusty plain. And when the rains arrive in Ruaha, things kick off in a big way; it goes absolutely nuts. I couldn't drive anywhere. I was just getting stuck in the mud. And eventually I decided that, you know, the best, most constructive thing to do would be macro photography around camp. And that dusty plain in front of our house, it transformed into a field of yellow flowers.

And I noticed bees pollinating these flowers. And I was sort of on my knees, crawling through the flowers, trying to get a shot of a bee pollinating. And this little bee landed, and I was about to take the photograph, and from behind one of the petals, a flower crab spider, almost the exact same colour as the flowers grabs this bee. And I think to myself, gee, you know, that's, yeah, this is even better. So I stopped down.

Toby: It's a kill.

Greg: It's a kill on a micro level, you know. So, well, on a macro level, sorry, so everything's micro. And so I stopped down, you know, for a little bit more depth, and this little male spider comes out of nowhere, runs onto the back of the female and starts, like, mating with her. So now I've got three subjects, and I'm like, 'Whoa.' So I stopped down even more. I'm about to take the photograph and two flies arrive, and they land on the bee. So I've got four subjects, or five if you count both flies on a scene so small it can fit inside a matchbox. But it was only later when I actually started trying to write a caption for this photograph, and I did some digging. Turns out, these flowers, I don't know, grow from a seed bank, and the spiders balloon in.

So they let out long threads of silk and those get caught in the wind, and these guys drift in the stratosphere, like way high up there, sort of in the jet stream. And they then descend. How they know where to descend, or how that works, I don't know. And then when they descend, I stand to be corrected on this because I'm not an entomologist, you know, I'm a photographer. But they, then, will take on the colour of whatever flowers are growing where they land. So this one becomes yellow for the yellow flowers. And while it's preoccupied with its prey, the male quickly mates, and these flies are very specialised flies, they call jackal flies. And they specialise on feeding on the juices that these crab spiders spill when devouring their prey. And a couple months prior, this was just a dirt plain. You know, you just got to get your head around that.

It's like, what?

Toby: Well, there we go. There's no way you could write a caption for that without it being an essay.

Greg: Exactly. 

Toby: And then, and then, and then. Well, that is a lot of fact in one photograph. But this is probably one of the most compelling wildlife photographs I've ever seen, because there is so much going on. And now I've just learned that there is a chance that we've got almost space- spiders landing on us and then taking on the colour of whatever they land on.

That's incredible. So where's this photograph? Why hasn't this won something? Have you entered it into a competition?

Greg: So funny enough, I entered this in the 2008 Wildlife Photography of the Year, and it didn't place at all. And that's also, you know, can be soul-destroying. This did place somewhere in like a local competition, but for me, it's more just a reminder of the incredible diversity in nature, and just the miracle of life, you know? And I'm witnessing the predator-prey interaction, but on a macro level, absolutely fantastic. And, just revisiting this photo, it's got me geared up.

I think I might dust off the old macro lens.

Toby: Well, there we go. And do you have any tips for macro? Again, this was digital, this wasn't film, was it?

Greg: Yeah, this was digital. I'd just gone digital. But yeah, my tip. One hot tip. Stop down. Stop down. Because, you know, when you're that close to your subject. You've got such a small amount of depth that you really want to be living in the f/11 to f/22 kind of range, in terms of your aperture setting.

Toby: Well, there we go. There's a top tip for you. Stop down. No, I mean, look, I'm thoroughly enjoying listening to all of your stories. I mentioned at the top of the show that you have written several books. Your latest book is stories about more the background rather than a picture book. Tell us about the book that you wrote there.

Greg: Yeah, so I thought I'd do something different. 'Cause most wildlife photographers, including myself, when we publish books, they, you know, they books of photographs. But for most people, and certainly for me, I only take a photograph under very specific conditions. So when the light's right, the background's right, the angles right, the behaviours there.

But there's so much else going on, sort of in life and in my head. And, so I thought, you know, I've got all these stories, and I thought, let me just put them all down. So it's a fun book. It's a light-hearted book about my travels, adventures, crazy safari guests as well. And then, of course, the more serious photography side.

And it was a lot of fun to write. And, if you love Africa, then you'll love the book. You know, it's just full of Africa.

Toby: Yeah, That's it. Well, I'm hoping that most people watching this do love Africa. Otherwise they might have stumbled onto the wrong show, maybe. Tell you what we'll do. Let's do a giveaway. Okay. You supply the book. I'll get it to the winner. What I'll do is, we will think of a question based on this podcast, so you've got to keep watching to the end. And then we will put a link in the description for you to go and click on. You can go and see if you can answer the question. We'll make it multiple choice. So it's not too difficult.

And then for all the correct answers, we'll do a draw, and the winner will get a signed copy of the book from Greg. How's that sound?

Greg: Cool. That sounds great.

Toby: Okay, we'll do that. Perfect. Okay. Well, let's move on to your fourth image, please. Another stunning shot. Tell us what's going on here.

Greg: Yeah, so this is another black and white photograph, and it's a pack of wild dog hunting buffalo, in the dust of a forest, actually. And this was photographed in Lower Zambezi National Park, in Zambia. But you know, my previous three
photographs were all really, really old photos. So, I wanted to include something more recent, and I think I took this shot last year. But just to see the change in photography is quite incredible. So this was taken at a whopping ISO of 3200.

And I can already hear the guys that shoot Sony going, you know, only 3200. But, you know. For me, it's just crazy where photography's gone to, and this is with, of course, a mirrorless camera. So I'm seeing the live feedback, and it's just, yeah, I mean, we can complain about a lot of things, but I don't think we can complain about our gear. But this shot for me is one that's also actually up in my house. Reason being, is my whole kind of personal journey has been about finding the absolute wildest corners of Africa. And when I say that. You know, like I'm a wildlife photographer. So I like animals, so it must be a place with a lot of animals.

I'm not talking about you know, the remotest place, I'm talking about the wildest place. And the last sort of 10 years I've been photographing a lot in Lower Zambezi National Park in Zambia. And there was a pack. I say"was", 'cause that pack is now split. But there was a pack of over 40 wild dogs and they were actually hunting and taking down full-grown buffalo, and I desperately wanted a shot of this.

And of course, it's a difficult photograph to get because wild dogs are muscular. So light levels are always low, and they, you know, they run for miles, and it's just hard to be in the right place. But on this particular evening, it all came together. And these dogs chased a herd of buffalo through the forest, and they had just kicked up dust, and this is the photograph I got. And for me, it just represents that wildness, you know. This behaviour had never before been documented.

So it's something completely new. And you've just got the dust, the trees, the posture of the dogs, especially the dog on the far right having a go at that buffalo. And for me, it just doesn't get wilder than this, you know, sort of as a wildlife photographer. And that's really, what this photograph kind of represents.

Toby: It's really lovely. It kind of looks, it looks like an older photograph. I wasn't sure. I thought this might have been one of your earlier shots. There's an oldie-worldy emotiveness about it. And I don't know what it is. Is it because of the black and white?

Greg: Yeah, I think it is the black and white. And then, quite interestingly, when it came to noise reduction, you know, very often, as photographers, we have a little checkbox, and you must sharpen your photos, de-noise them, boom, boom, boom. I left the noise in this, you know. I didn't want this to be a clean photo. This is not, this is a messy scene. It's harsh, it's real Africa, it's wild. And what you said about that photograph is a compliment, because I am a fine art wildlife photographer, so I'm trying to create art, and not necessarily shoot things that are neat and clean with, like, zero noise, etcetera.

And that timeless quality is, you know, I mean, it's something that I try to include in my work whenever I can.

Toby: Well, that's good. I mean, I would never want to cause offence, but what's so wonderful about it is, it's so subjective, and I think I always talk about it I call it Cindy Crawford's mole. Cindy Crawford wouldn't be Cindy Crawford without Cindy Crawford's mole. There needs to be something which doesn't. If everything's too perfect, "perfect", as in, you know, you've done it, we've de-noised it completely and things like that. It would lose that bit. The punctum. It would lose the punctum. There we go. New word. I'm going to be so.

Wait, it's going to start appearing in Instagram post now, hashtag #punctum. Watch it. It is, it is It's going to be there. Let's talk about this. Whilst we're on the subject, because now this is art, and there's photography. You say that you only take very rare photographs. The light has to be perfect. The moment has to be perfect. You're almost shooting film on digital. Would that be a fair assumption to make?

Greg: You know, you've already got 37 shots on the roll. Yeah, that's very much my approach, and it's always been my approach. Yeah, it became challenging because when digital came, you know, you can play and fix a photograph to amazing degrees. But that was never my thing. So, like, I studied nature conservation. So my whole background's in the bush. And for me, wildlife photography is about I'm observing and witnessing, and then putting your creative spin on it. But for me, that is something that happens in the field at the time of taking the photograph. And that's not to say that you know, I feel like that's the only way it should be done. It's just the way that I do it. And I've kind of stayed true to my roots. It's been quite difficult 'cause there are times you feel like the game's getting away from you. You know, when you see just these absolutely crystal clear, perfect photographs, especially this trend that we see of late on social media, where the background's just silky smooth.

It's been obliterated, basically. And you know, I've had to sort of have those uncomfortable thoughts, or sleepless nights where it's like, well, what if, especially with AI, what if, you know, wildlife photography changes completely, and I become obsolete. But I've sort of just had to realise that the way I shoot is connected to who I am, and this is the way I do it. And if that means I become obsolete, then so be it. But I can't change, you know, so I can't just go and shoot in the middle of the day, convert it and spend 10 hours to get the photograph to look like this.

Toby: We sometimes do it on the Chobe. There's so much to photograph, and I know Guts, my business partner, used to do this. He used to tell everybody, right? We have to imagine that we're only shooting on film, and you're only allowed to take 36 images for the whole afternoon, and you watch people sweating bullets. Yeah. Because they're like, oh no, I can't. Oh, I don't want to waste it. But then, often he would do it like half an hour before sunset. He goes, right, here's the deal for you. You can have a nice cold beer or 10 more photographs.

And then you

Greg: Oh, brilliant.

Toby: People trying make a decision. They go, no, no, no, we'll take the photos. We'll take the photos. I'm only kidding. You can have a beer as well. But it's a very interesting thing for people to do, to slow them down, rather than coming back with 2500 photographs to actually be disciplined enough. Just to slow down and think about the photograph rather than firing away and see what happens.

Okay, so we are going to take a break now and then, when we come back, Greg is going to share the image that was taken by another photographer, that maybe he wishes he took him himself. As always, we'd love to hear your comments and feedback on the podcast, so please do leave them in the comments down below.

Or if you're an audio listener, please give us a rating, a thumbs up, or a quick review that'll help us get found. Thank you so much.

Welcome back to the final part of the Pangolin Podcast with my guest today, wildlife photographer Greg Du Toit. Now, at this part of the show, we've asked Greg to choose an image taken by another wildlife photographer that he admires and maybe he wishes he had taken himself. So let's reveal the image and Greg, tell us about this one.

Greg: Yeah, so this is a photograph taken by David Lloyd, and it's a portrait of a lioness, but a really different one in that she's completely black, dark, covered in mud, and you've got these golden, golden eyes peering out the frame, sort of back to towards you. But when you asked me, you know, what photo do you wish was yours? Because, of course, we all follow each other, and we all know each other. So I know, loads of photographers with loads of images, but ever since I saw this photograph, this is one I wish I had in my library.

And very unfortunately, it belongs to a Kiwi. But it's still a great photo.

Toby: That's the biggest problem about it is the fact that it's a Kiwi took it. It's not, okay. Do you know the story behind this photograph?

Do you know?

Greg: So I don't really know in that I haven't spoken to Dave about it. I know David. And I met him many times, mostly in the Mara, so I'm pretty sure this was taken in the Masai Mara. And what I think it is, the lions had killed a buffalo, but it was in one of those sort of small ravines. And during the feeding, they got completely covered in mud, and I'm not quite sure what she's looking at here, but, she's covered in mud and just those golden eyes just peering back at you.

And from the time I saw this photograph, I just thought wow, that is just so striking. And, when I was preparing for this podcast, I look at that photo, and I'm still like, damn, I wish that was mine. 

Toby: It is, I mean, anyone who's been on safari and looked into the eyes of a lion, it is the most penetrating stare you could probably get any other animal. But this is even more so, because of this sort of dark, menacing nature of it. How can you make a lion photograph more piercing? We are going to have to get David on the show so we can find out the story behind it. Well, it does go to show that lions do matter. It's not just the small stuff that suddenly, you see an image like this. But he has never won anything with it. Why has this not won a competition somewhere?

Greg: Well, that's such a good question. I'm not sure, you know, because he does enter Wildlife Photographer of the Year, and I'm pretty sure he would've entered this one. And personally, I take encouragement from that, because this is a cracking photo, and for this to not place, it doesn't make it not a cracking photo, it's just that photography is subjective, and I think we must never forget that. And there is only place for a hundred photographs every year in that competition. But yeah, the other thing I must just say, 'cause you were saying the predators do count, but I'd like to just add to that and say that lions count, because lions are my favourite subject to photograph. And I take such extreme flak for this, from my safari guests and my colleagues, because everyone's leopards, leopards, leopards. And if it's not leopards, it's wild dogs.

And when I say, look, I love lions. Oh, they just sleep, you know? But man, I love lions because when they're not sleeping, they are just awesome, you know? 

So for the one hour a day when lions are doing something, that's awesome. 

Toby: It is true. When they wake up and do. Well, that's all they're doing. They're spending 23 hours building up to being awesome. There you go. That's all that lions, that's the life of a lion. Greg, I want to thank you for being on the show, but before we let you go, the premise of the show is that you are now cast away in your, in a remote location where you're going to hang these photographs on your wall, but you get to choose where that remote location is. So where is your humble dwelling going to be?

Greg: That's an easy one for me. It's obviously got to be in Africa. I mean, it would be really strange if I said, you know, I want to go to the North Pole. But it's Ruaha National Park. Yeah, for me. Tanzania. For those that don't know, that is an overlap zone between Southern and East Africa. So it is like the only park we'll get lesser and greater kudu, for example. But you get Southern African bird species and East African bird species. You get roan, you get sable. More baobabs than I've ever seen in any other national park. It is just exquisitely beautiful. But a sort of subtle beauty, but sort of an ancient place.

And yeah, I think I would stick my house in Ruaha. Deep in the south, you know, like miles away from everyone.

Toby: So if we want to, we want to find you in the future, we'll know where to look for you. You're going to be in deep south Ruaha. I've never been there, and it's certainly on my list of places to go. So one day, Greg, I'll give you a shout, and you can show me around. Look forward to it.

Greg: Awesome, it'll be my pleasure.

Toby: Brilliant.

Greg, thank you so much for taking time out. I know you've just got back from a safari. You're probably super busy, but I really appreciate the time. I hope you've enjoyed being on the show. And, thank you very much for joining us on the Pangolin Podcast.

Greg: Thanks, Toby. No, it's always great to talk about Africa and photography. Thanks a lot.

Toby: Thank you for joining me on another episode of the Pangolin Podcast. We hope that you have enjoyed it. As always, we'd love to hear your comments and feedback, so please leave them in the comments down below. If you're an audio listener, please give us a rating, a thumbs up, or a quick review. And if you don't want to miss the next episode or any of our other wildlife photography videos, make sure you subscribe.

Finally, don't forget to sign up to the Pangolin Photo Safaris Friday Focus newsletter. You can do that by heading over to pangolinphoto.com, or you can scan the QR code on your screen now. I look forward to seeing you
on a Pangolin Photo Safari soon. All that's left for me to say is that the Pangolin Podcast was hosted by me, Toby Jermyn, and produced and edited by Bella Falk.

Thank you.