Meet the Pro: Karolina Norée

In episode seven of the Pangolin Podcast, host Toby Jermyn welcomes wildlife photography guide Karolina Norée. After falling in love with African wildlife in 2016, Karolina moved from Sweden to South Africa and became a leading wildlife photography guide. 

Here is a link to a gallery of the images: https://pangolin.smugmug.com/SmugMug-Website/Website-Pages/Karolina-Norée

Karolina's website: https://karolinanoree.com/

She shares her journey, her experiences of photographing in the African bush, and her favourite images. The episode also explores the impact of social media on her career and features a special photo by another photographer she admires. Tune in for an inspiring conversation on turning passion into a profession!

00:00 Meet The Pro: Karolina Norée
04:13 Image 1: Elephants in Dust
13:13 Image 2: Kudu Bull
20:56 Image 3: Leopard in a tree
27:44 Image 4: Rim-lit cheetah
34:40 Image 5: Elephant pooing by Tom Zwerver
37:53 Wrapping Up

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The Pangolin Podcast was produced and edited by Bella Falk: https://www.passportandpixels.com

We are Pangolin Wildlife Photography, based in the Chobe, Northern Botswana. When we are not making videos for our channel, we host our guests and clients from all over the world on our Wildlife Photography safaris throughout Botswana and the rest of Africa—and sometimes beyond!

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We are Pangolin Wildlife Photography, based in the Chobe, Northern Botswana. When we are not making videos for our channel, we host our guests and clients from all over the world on our Wildlife Photography safaris throughout Botswana and the rest of Africa—and sometimes beyond!

Learn More about our safaris here: https://link.pangolinphoto.com/BZ-Safaris

Chapters

• 4:13 1st Image: Elephants in Dust
• 13:13 2nd Image: Kudu Bull
• 20:56 3rd Image: Leopard in a tree
• 27:44 4th Image: Rim-lit cheetah
• 34:40 Inspirational Image: Elephant pooing by Tom Zwerver

Transcript

Toby: Hello and welcome to episode seven of the Pangolin Podcast. I'm your host, Toby Jermyn. Thank you very much for joining me. 

In each episode, I've invited a professional wildlife photographer to imagine themselves in a remote location, and along with their camera gear, they're allowed to bring five photographs to hang on the wall of their humble dwelling. 

Now, four of these must be their own, and the final image is one they admire by another photographer. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can view the images as we talk. But for audio listeners on other platforms, there is a link in the description to a gallery. 

On today's show. 

Karolina: My friend was like, you should start a photographic Instagram, like for your photos specifically. 

And, and I was like, that is so cringe. Like every single tourist who comes to Africa does that. But then she convinced me to do it. And I started the Instagram with like, super ironic posts my [00:01:00] bio literally said, came to Africa once and called myself a wildlife photographer. 

Toby: My guest today was born and raised in Sweden and first set foot on South African soil in 2016, and like so many before her instantly fell in love with the wildlife. 

Just two years later, she took one of the most significant leaps of her life moving to South Africa in pursuit of her dreams. That same year, she completed her nature guide training, a turning point that perfectly fused her passion for the natural world with a deep understanding of the African bush. Roll forwards nine years, and she has created a fantastic reputation for herself as one of the leading wildlife photography guides working in southern Africa today. Welcome to the show, Karolina Norée. 

Karolina: Thank you so much. You make me sound very important. I love it. 

Toby: Well, there we go. You gotta have a bit of affirmation every day, haven't you? So there's your 

Karolina: Yes. 

Toby: So Karolina, I, I mean, it's ridiculous. Most people, I always start off by [00:02:00] asking people where they are, but, uh, I recognize that background. Do you wanna tell everybody else where you are? 

Karolina: Yes. For those who don't recognize the logo behind me or maybe are listening on podcasts instead of watching the, the video, I'm in Chobe at the Pangolin Chobe Hotel. 

Toby: And you are there because you are leading some groups for us, aren't you? 

Karolina: Yes, I am. I've just gotten back from doing a Chobe Delta Kalahari, which was amazing. it's probably my favorite itinerary to do because it's such a, it was such a cool itinerary, and I had an amazing group of guests. We had so much fun and, and some amazing sightings, so it's been fantastic. 

Toby: Brilliant. So now you've got a few days and, we've dragged you into the studio to imagine yourself in a humble dwelling, difficult to do when you're staying at the hotel, but we'll have to imagine nonetheless. So how easy or difficult was it to choose the images for this show? 

Karolina: Oh, very difficult. I think picking the one from a different photographer, it was one photo that just came into mind. And then obviously [00:03:00] I'll tell the story of that, you know, later in the show. So cliffhanger. While all the, the four photos of my own was more difficult because you've got so many different favorites for different reasons that trying to find just four that I could choose was very difficult. 

Toby: There's a disproportionate number of vertical images today. So you , have a very big presence on Instagram. So one of the questions I wanted to start off with, 

are you always thinking about going into portrait orientation because you're thinking, well, this is how you communicate mostly with your audience. 

Karolina: No, uh, it completely depends on the, uh, situation and usually the pose of the animal. So if they are walking like towards me or standing in a way where I'm getting them like head on, then I'll do portraits, uh, because like they are a tall subject. So then, you know, it works well with a tall, , frame. 

While if it's an animal moving on the side or if I want to get more of a landscape in and it works for that, [00:04:00] then I'll do landscape. But obviously being very Instagram based, I do tend to lean more towards the portrait thing, especially when I'm cropping afterwards. Even if I've shot it in, in a horizontal, I'll often crop vertical. 

Image 1

 
Toby: I'm sure we'll chat more about Instagram later on. I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram. but, let's start with your first image that you chose. So tell us a little bit about this, this first image.

Karolina: So my first image is a photo of two elephants running through dust that is back lit by the setting sun. And it worked out that way that the background was very, very dark. And then the elephants themselves are silhouette and basically the only thing that is in color is the dust that is, highlighted by the sun and has that beautiful orange glow to it.

Toby: And unusually, we obviously hopes that these would be Chobe, elephants, but they're not. Where was this taken?

Karolina: This was actually taken in Hwange, uh, or concession just outside Hwange in Zimbabwe. Uh So yeah, unfortunately, not Chobe elephants, but it might be the same ones they do wander over [00:05:00] there. So it could be the same elephants we see in the Chobe.

Toby: You, well, perhaps, perhaps they are. It's a beautiful, beautiful shot. It's really emotive and I love the fact that you've taken advantage of the conditions of the day. You know, a lot of people panic a little bit, oh, it's too dusty, or things like that, but to actually be able to create something from it.

What do you think about with your settings when you have a moment like this? It's quite difficult to expose for us, isn't it?

Karolina: It is actually a shot that I had had in mind for a very long time, and then it just, the opportunity didn't occur. And when I've posted this on social media, it's funny because I do get a lot of questions about it with, uh, you know, how do you capture a photo like this? What are the settings? And, the biggest and the most important setting here is the exposure compensation where I have exposed negatively quite a lot, because the camera will naturally try to, compensate for the dark areas of the photo and try to make the photo too bright for my vision.

so I told the camera, no, I wanna exposure compensate negatively, and I want this photo to be dark. And that's how I'm able keep the details in the dust [00:06:00] and the highlights. And that also makes the background and the elephants very, very dark and I get that silhouetted effect. And then in post-processing, a lot of people when I've posted this on social media, think that there's a lot of post-processing involved.

And I'm definitely one that loves to edit my photos. And I'll never say that I, you know, don't edit my photos at all. But this specific one, it was very little post-processing. Pretty much all I had to do was, correct the white balance. Make it a little bit warmer, then add a little bit of color into the dust to really get at that bright orange feel that I wanted.

Uh,

Toby: Do you know what I really like about this? I haven't seen the settings, but it's a relatively fast shutter speed because the edges are all very sharp. There's no real blur, but the shadows have kind of created a blur, which give it a sense of motion as well.

The, leg up helps but there is no motion blur. Was it quite as fast shutter speed?

Karolina: I think it, the shut speed must have been around 1,002 50 or even more than that actually. Uh, it was also, it was shot on a 2.8 lens, so obviously I was already letting a lot of light in and, you know, shooting into the sun, you, you're getting a lot of light. [00:07:00] So the shut speed is, quite high, but yeah, you're right. It's the dust and the shadows from the elephant that creates that like almost motion blur feel to it, which I also really like.

Toby: It is, it, it's lovely and it's very ethereal, and I love the fact that it's just this band of bright light that the elephants are moving through. It's a really, really lovely image. Now, you are a, you are a Sony shooter, aren't you?

Karolina: Yes.

So I've got a Sony A seven R five, that is my main wildlife camera. And with that I have a 302.8 lens, which I absolutely love. Uh, then sometimes depending on the situations, I'll sometimes check a 1.4 teleconverter on that if I want a little bit of more, reach. Uh, then a second body that I don't use as much is a a seven four with a 24 to 72.8 lens, which I use for more like wide shots, obviously as a, you know, it's always nice to have that backup option if something gets really close, especially on the Chobe, you know, in the boats you can get elephants really nice and close and that way get those cool wide angle shots of the elephants, which is [00:08:00] always really fun to do.

Toby: So we would also be a little bit remiss if we didn't talk about. How you ended up photographing, you know, elephants in Hwange, in Zimbabwe. So as I mentioned in the introduction, you were born, born and raised in, in Sweden and came in 2016. So nine years you've been, in essence in Africa, is that right?

Almost hitting your decade next year. What, what brought you to Africa first? What was, how did that happen?

Karolina: It's a funny story because, people have to ask me like, oh, did you dream about doing this growing up? And, you know, and I'm like, no, not at all. This, if someone would've told me 10 years ago, that this is what I would be doing, I would've been, I would laughed, laughed in their face. 'cause I really did, I did not imagine this in my wildest dreams.

Uh, the reason I came to South Africa the first time was I had just graduated our equivalent to high school in Sweden and I wanted to take a gap year to travel. And because of very random reasons, I ended up booking, like last minute, I ended up booking a horse safari, uh, volunteering [00:09:00] program, uh, in a little town called Hoedspruit, uh, just outside Kruger National Park.

And that's how I ended up in South Africa for the first time.

Toby: so it was a last minute booking. He said, well, that looks, that looks like fun. I'll just do that.

Karolina: It's crazy. I literally Googled Africa volunteering, uh, horses and booked pretty much the first thing that came up. And, uh, and just loved it.

Toby: So you, you arrived, fell in love with nature, did your guiding qualifications, and that's obviously off FGASA level one. Have you, did you progress further than FGASA level one?

Karolina: No, just, just because level one. So actually I prefer not to call myself a guide because I feel like, you know, I'm a, I'm a photographic guide. I'll definitely say that, but I feel like as soon as I say I'm a qualified guide, people put me on the same level as like the guides that, you know, host us out on safari.

And I'm like, I'm definitely not that experienced. And they've got way more qualifications than myself. I've got the very basic one, which I'm definitely proud of. But, yeah, I didn't progress much further than that.

Toby: And then when did the photography come [00:10:00] in? So you got, were you photographing before or is that something that evolved from the guiding?

Karolina: No, the photography, I've always enjoyed photography. growing up with, you know, phones that had cameras and stuff. Uh, we, I remember me and my friends would use, we used to use our phones to make like little videos and murder mysteries and we even did vlogs and all sorts of things, I always enjoyed photography and I think when I got my first camera when I was 15, I remember just literally enjoying going out into nature and just. Pressing the shutter. I just really enjoyed taking photos and pressing the shutter and finding some random leaf in the middle of the forest, uh, and photograph that.

And then in, uh, our equivalent to high school, I did a, uh, photography course that gave me kind of the foundation of, you know, the photography and, we actually did learn quite a lot of Photoshop as well, and it was very studio based as well.

But then when I came to South Africa the first time. I was going for, you know, the adventure and the horses. And then I obviously had my camera and my dad was like, you [00:11:00] can borrow my telephoto lens. You know, you obviously need to take photos of the wildlife while you're there, you're going on safari. And that was, in my mind, I didn't even think about the fact of seeing animals. And I remember seeing a lion for the first time and a giraffe for the first time, and I was like, whoa.

so that's when the wildlife photography became a big thing. 'cause all of a sudden I had these exciting subjects in nature that I could photograph and I really enjoyed it. so that's when that like fire sparked.

Toby: Did you, did you did your volunteering and went home and then started pining for Africa? Or did you just not go home?

Karolina: No, I did go home. I was there for two months and uh, I remember literally the day I arrived, and I remember seeing my first giraffe and I just remember thinking to myself. Two months is never gonna be enough. I, I just, I just knew it right away. but obviously I had to go home.

I ran out of money, obviously I couldn't stay longer. so I went home and I, uh, started working. Uh, I worked as a, as a temp teacher for a while, and that, uh, at a restaurant as [00:12:00] a waitress and just started saving up money. And all I could think about was South Africa. I knew I wanted to travel and I was thinking about going to other places.

I had a lot of friends who went to Australia and, you know, backpacking in Asia and some people went to the States for studying and stuff. but that never really appealed to me because, 'cause I was so stuck on South Africa. So that's when the guiding course came in. Uh, friends in South Africa told me about it and I was like, well, I can't be a guide.

Like, you know, I don't know enough. And I'm just from Sweden. I barely know the difference between a cheetah and a leopard. You know, Then they were like, no, but you'll learn everything along the way. And then this course, gave me the possibility to come back to Hoedspruit into South Africa where I had made these friends in the place that I loved so much, while also exploring something new and seeing more of the country and learning more of the wildlife, which is what I wanted.

Toby: What a fun learning experience. And here you are now guiding groups of international photographers in Botswana. So it all

Karolina: I know.

Toby: with taking random photographs of leaves in trees in Sweden. You never know. And, [00:13:00] and, uh, and Googling, uh, an African experience. Once you get bitten, you get bitten. That's it. Okay, well tell you what, let's move on to photograph number two, please, and, uh, tell us a little bit about this image.
 

Image 2

 
Karolina: So my second photo is a image of a Kudu bull, looking straight at me. And he's sticking his head up from, , some bushes around him, quite thick bush, but he's perfectly, framed out of the bushes, and why I chose this image, because kudu is my favorite animal. but they are very difficult to photograph because they are usually too chilled or not chilled enough, in the sense that they will either, run away as soon as you drive up the car to them. Or they're so chilled that they just keep on eating and they're not like.

Posing for you. so this was a perfect mix. He was, uh, chill enough to stay there, but curious enough to look at me and, and post so nicely for me. And I also really like the fact that, uh, the bushes are around him because I think it does tell the story about, you know, what, Kudus live in.

, They enjoy quite thick bush. They're not usually [00:14:00] out in the open too much. So you do have that around him while he's still, you know, perfectly out in the, open all his faces so that you can still have a good look at him.

Toby: I love it. And also, especially with the ears facing straight towards you as well. 'cause you can tell he's properly engaged in you, even though it's probably momentary. that's what really makes the image.

But what is it? Why Kudus. Kudus is, it's an interesting animal to be your favorite animal.

Karolina: That is one of the reasons is like everyone's favorite animal is like, at least like one of the big five, you know? And I get it. I really do. But I was like, no, I need to be a little bit different.

Uh, but also, uh, I think for me, they just incredibly gracious. then obviously like a kudu bull with these big horns, these spiraling horns are just stunning. but then also, it's a funny story about the first time I saw Du 'cause again, like when I came to South Africa, I had no clue what animals were here.

You know, I, as I said, I would confuse the leopard in a, in a cheetah because I, I did, just didn't know. And the first time I saw a kudu was that classic, you [00:15:00] know. When they're in thick bush, we drive past, we stop because someone spots it. They look at you just like this, but then they're gone in a second because they just run.

And all that I saw was the ears, the horns, and then these like markings on the nose that they have and then the big ears made them look like teddy bears to me. And then I associated the horns with an, with an elk or a moose.

So in my head, for the longest time, they were elk bears, because that's what they looked like to me. And it became a big joke with my friends. So

Toby: We're gonna rename them elk, Swedish, elk bear. You can do that on Safari. And we go, oh my gosh, look, it's a herd of Swedish elk bear. And then see what sort of reaction you get. Do you know the Kudu song? This is gonna ruin kudus for you. You get like this, you go Kudu, kudu, kudu, kudu, kudu, kudu. And that's it. Now, unfortunately, every time you see a Kudu, that song's gonna be in your head, as it will do for however many people, watch this podcast.

Sorry. [00:16:00] Okay. This is a perfect example of your, very Instagrammable. It lends itself obviously to being a portrait image as well. And I bet this did very well on your socials.

Karolina: it is probably one of my, like most liked photos actually. single photo, like obviously carousels and stuff now are getting good traction on Instagram, but a single photo, this is I think my most like post ever.

Toby: Yes, it's a very, very beautiful image. So do you find, when you were getting into, into photography, for anybody out there who's looking to get into photography as a profession, did you find that Instagram was your best conduit for getting out there, getting your name out there, posting images, or what other media did you use as well?

Karolina: Yes. I think, uh, the way it came about with Instagram was, you know, it was never one of those things where I was like, oh, I wanna be a photographer. Where should I post? You know, it was more like Instagram was the social media for my generation. Facebook, you know, was a little bit [00:17:00] outdated, and, uh, the way it came about was actually that during my FGASA course, my guiding course,

​

Karolina: I was taking photos. I. was Enjoying it a lot. And my friend was like, wait, but what are you doing with your photos?

Like, they're beautiful. You should start a photographic Instagram, like for your photos specifically.

And, and I was like, that is so cringe. Like every single tourist who comes to Africa does that. But then she convinced me to do it. And I started the Instagram with like, super ironic posts my bio literally said, came to Africa once and called myself a wildlife photographer.

And then the captions was like, a photo of a, of a giraffe. And I'd be like, spot the lion or something, or like a photo of a zebra and be like, this is, this has stripes. You know, like I would just try to be ironic about it because I was embarrassed. but then eventually that just grew into posting more and more.

And I think the key there was that I, because I [00:18:00] started a separate Instagram for my photography alone, where I was only following other wildlife photographers and people who inspired me.

And that I think, opened up this new world where all of a sudden I was exposed to people actually doing this full time. And I was learning a lot from just following other people. Uh, that was, I think, the biggest key with my, with my Instagram.

Toby: I, I think that's an important thing to mention is it's not necessarily always about the photographs that you're posting, but it's the community that's created when you gravitate towards other wildlife photographers. I, I think, if I remember correctly, I think you came to our attention because either Sabina or Janine saw you on Instagram and I think that's why we reached out to you all those years ago. So there we go. In case you didn't know So it works, doesn't it?

Karolina: Yes, absolutely. I think it can inspire you so much. I think you can learn so much about your own photography and other people's photography and figure out what you like, what don't you like, and then yeah, connect with people.

And then here we are, you know, so many years later and I'm working with you guys, which [00:19:00] is quite amazing.

Toby: Isn't it just, there we go. I do worry about certain social media these days because everything is gravitating towards video. I mean, YouTube's always been video, but now you look at Instagram and it's just series of short videos and reels and stories Have you found any other spaces on the internet where you can share? Images like we used to on Facebook where have you found?

Karolina: Well, um, unfortunately don't have an answer to that because it is true. I think video is taking over, but I don't think that that necessarily means that photos are done. Like you can't do photos anymore. I find that you can incorporate photos with video and you just have to think about it a little bit differently where you, can post your photos in a reel, for example, and people can still see the photos. It's just shown in a video format. And then also I think the good news is that now on Instagram, uh, a lot of people are talking about how photos are actually coming back and making a big comeback in [00:20:00] carousels so like you, the way we would before post reels and we would say like, you know, here's my 10 best photos from Africa. In a video. Now you post that in carousels. You know, your first photo being my 10 based photos, and then you slide, and then you have the 10 different photos. , So it's, I think it's coming back. I think people still enjoy photos and I don't think it's completely over just yet.

Toby: I think it's interesting, isn't it? When I watch people, some people consuming Instagram, it's a scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll down, down, down. But to make people stop and then go sideways into a carousel to actually absorb what they're seeing rather than boom, boom, otherwise you're just fighting for that sort of thing.
 
Anyway, we're gonna talk lots more about social media 'cause it's omnipresent, it's everywhere, and it's obviously important in, in, in our industry. But what we're gonna do is we're gonna take a quick break now, and then we come back. We're gonna talk about your third image and I'm sure we'll talk more about your life and work as a wildlife photographer in Africa. 

Image 3

 
Toby: Hello and welcome back to part two of the Pangolin [00:21:00] Podcast with my guest today, Karolina Norrie. Now Karolina, this is your third image that you've chosen. Tell us a little bit about this image please.

Karolina: This is a photograph of a leopard, lying on a branch of what is almost a perfect tree. It's a marula tree with a lot of greenery around it.

And it's not your normal, zoomed in, photograph of a leopard on a branch where you basically just see the leopard in a bit of the branch. It's includes the whole tree. Uh, it was done so on purpose because , this is actually nine photographs stitched together to create this image And I did it because I wanted to still get that compression that my long lens gets you know, blurring the background a little bit while still including a lot of the environment in the photo and including this beautiful tree. it's a photograph that took a little bit of technique, , getting with , the stitching and everything.

And it took me a very long time to edit this photo. . And since then, it's been one of my favorite photographs ever.[00:22:00]

Toby: So talk, talk me through the process then. So you took nine photographs, so that's a three. Three by three. So you took, where did you start?

Karolina: I started on the leopard and I made sure that the leopard was in the whole frame, because if the leopard moves, then obviously you can't stitch the photos together. And then I think now this is like five years ago, so I can't remember if I went like up and down or if I went to the side first.

But yeah, I started on the leopard and then kind of built my way from there.

Toby: And you're right, it's a beautiful tree. It's the kind of tree that everybody drives past on safari and goes, oh, wouldn't that be amazing if a Lepard was sitting there? And were you with guests when this happened,

Karolina: No, this was actually, this was on a self-drive safari in the Kruger National Park with friends. We were actually just going through the park from, from Hoedspruit to White River for those who knows the area. we like to sometimes go through the park if we're traveling between those two towns because it just makes the road trip a lot more fun.

and yeah, going through the park just for the day and we heard about this leopard in a tree and we [00:23:00] rushed there. And found this beautiful female in this tree and she gave us a show.

She was like walking on the bra and she yawning and stuff and then walking back and forth And then we were with her for quite a long time and I kind of had this idea of like, let me just try and see if this works. And it ended up working out.

Toby: There we go. And this is sort of the large scale image that lends itself to printing. Please tell me you've printed this.

Karolina: Yes, I printed it quite big because it's a big landscape and the leopard is obviously quite small in the frame, so this is a, photo that does not do well on Instagram. And , I've actually had people comment and say, beautiful photo, but maybe zoom in more on the leopard next time.

And I'm like, the whole

Toby: And go vertical. And go vertical. There we go.

Karolina: Exactly. but this is definitely a photo that does well as a print so yeah, it's really nice , to print this big because also with the resolution of the nine photos stitched together, at the time I was photographing with a camera that has 35 megapixels.

So, you know, getting that times nine [00:24:00] plus minus a bit of overlapping of the photos, you get a really nice resolution picture that does well with printing big.

Toby: And did you try it in black and white? Does it work in black and white as well?

Karolina: Oh, interesting. I haven't actually tried it in black and whites. I think I like the green so much that, it never really occurred to me, but I, guess it could work in black and whites.

Toby: It sometimes does. I mean, this is very obvious because you're lucky that the leopard is sitting against the sort of the clean sky. But leopards also because of their spot patterns.

I suppose maybe if it's a bit closer, it works very well in black and white. Do one quickly, edit it in black and white and we'll include it in the podcast. No pressure. If

Karolina: Okay. Sure. I'll do that.

Toby: see if it can work to split it through a filter, then you'll be fine. Obviously this day and age, everybody has to put themselves out there, whether it's Instagram, YouTube. You know, you said at the beginning you were a little bit, you know, nervous maybe about putting yourself out there because it can be quite a hostile environment. everybody's got an opinion on social media and it can be quite harsh.

Did you, did you get knock backs from people about images? Did you, how do you overcome [00:25:00] that?

Karolina: Yeah, I think in the beginning what helped me kind of overcome that was that I realized that the people that I before would maybe care a lot about what they think, you know, like friends from high school and you need to be cool and whatever. I was like, oh, they actually don't follow this Instagram so they don't see what I'm doing.

So like I can kind of do whatever I want without really caring about it. Because you started building this community of people who did care about what you did

I think also seeing other people, you know, posting things and there can be beautiful photographs with no likes and they can be ugly photographs with a lot of likes. So I was like, doesn't really matter. And I think also obviously encouragement from friends and family who were following and new people who started following as well. Definitely helped. so in the beginning I definitely, I didn't get any negative comments at all. Uh, the negative comments came when things went viral and I started growing a following, and then people think that they can kind of tell you anything that they want without you, without bothering [00:26:00] you. And, and that's when, mean comments sometimes can come in.

Toby: So we go, we just delete them. Just get rid of them. Block them. Off you go

Karolina: No, actually keep them. I keep the comments because one, it's good engagement, like, you know, but also because I think it's important to not like hide from it. And also other people who might be seeing my posts and stuff also see the reality of that. it's not just all fun and games and there is negativity out there and so on.

But then also I think I'm very fortunate to have a incredible community following me. So sometimes with the negative comments, I don't even have to answer back. Uh, my followers will pick up on it and they will like defend me, which is the most beautiful thing to see. so I usually just keep it there because I'm like, you know what, we can't just hide from criticism.

Sometimes people are constructive, like. To be fair, the leopard photo where they're like, oh, zoom in next time. I think that's supposed to be a con, constructive, you know, feedback. But that's just, they're missing the point. But sometimes people are just mean and comment on things that you, that are not constructive [00:27:00] at all.

Toby: I think as somebody who's on social media as well, you do quite a lot of stuff, which is, you know, the behind the scenes stuff, and you can be a little bit self-deprecating and realize that it's all, it is all fun. And I think that also helps as well when you show that there is a human being behind.

The imagery as well. It's not just you saying, wow, look at me, I'm great. And also I think sometimes letting people know that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

You know, being honest, I think with your audience. Important. Okie

Karolina: the, the face fronting thing does definitely help that people see there's a person behind it.

Toby: Well, there we go. Well, you've made videos for us as well on our YouTube channel, and they've been very well received. And you're gonna be making some more videos for us. We've gotta sit down, you and I when we have a time in our diary to talk about ideas for more videos.

Karolina: Yes, absolutely.
 

Image 4

 
Toby: Okay, brilliant. Let's move on to your fourth image. How did you take this?

Karolina: So this is a photograph of a young cheetah, where you actually only see the very outline of the cheetah. It's rim lit, , as we call it in photography, where just the [00:28:00] outline in the fur of the cheetah is highlighted and the rest of the photo is completely black.

And this is taken in Serengeti, six months ago. Uh, we had a beautiful sighting of a female cheetah with two cubs, and they were really, you know, posing nicely for us in some beautiful golden light. And this opportunity occurred where the Cheeto was standing with a dark bush behind it, but the light was hitting it just perfectly, where, the outline was, rem lit as we call it.

I love this photograph because it's one of those very creative ones. I love teaching this type of technique when the opportunity occurs. , Especially, you know, with baboons and cheetahs, and anything that has a lot of fur, uh, works really well for this technique. And it's so much fun because it snaps you out of that classic like, portrait where you see all the details of the face type of thing.

Sometimes I have guests who are like, yeah, I don't get the point. Like, I wanna see the face of the cheetah. But I think when you do lean into the low key, high key type of thing where [00:29:00] you, you don't have to see the whole animal to understand that this is a cheetah and, you can get this like creative shot, I think it is, it opens up so many doors in photography.

There are so much fun where it really becomes art rather than just, you know, documentary photography.

Toby: I love the fact that you mentioned baboons because baboons are the most amazing animals, and they are much maligned, especially when they run around the place, breaking into the hotel, stealing stuff the whole time.

But, they are amazing subject matter. And you're right, anything which is a little bit sort of furry, but then it also tells the story about the time of day because it's quite obvious that wasn't, you know, full on sunlight. It wasn't the middle of the day or that it's emotive. It's lovely.

Karolina: No, definitely. I think it's, so much fun to, to do this type of stuff, but you, as you say, you have to have the right animal. You can't do this with an elephant. And as you say, it needs to be very specific conditions and especially in Serengeti where the sun sets so quickly because it's so close to the equator, you know, it's so quick and then it's gone and you have to be really, really quick on this.[00:30:00]

But this is also done with that same technique of as the elephants were, you know, where you expose negatively to make sure that everything is dark apart from just the highlighted parts. And then in post-processing, I just make sure that everything is completely black and that I add a little bit of, of light to the highlights to just make them pop.

Toby: a lot of clients will turn up and a lot of clients have learned the basics of photography. They've been told about perfect exposure and perfect focus and make sure everything's sharp. How much resistance do you get when you say to somebody, okay, I want you to underexpose this by three stops.

Karolina: People just don't get it, uh, until they see the results. I love teaching. This is one of my favorite things to teach because, you just see this light go, oh, this is how you get those photographs. And, they're like, oh, okay. You know, they're a little bit nervous to do it, but then when they see the results later on And just seeing that light of them feeling like they've created something rather than just captured something.

And I think that's, that's the big difference there. I actually have in include this photo in my presentation that I do with [00:31:00] guests in the beginning of a trip, just to get them to snap out of that mindset a little bit. That golden hour is beautiful, and yes, having the sun behind you on the subject gets the spotlight type of thing.

But it makes for kind of like, you know, not boring photographs, but they're quite standard, while parking with the sun behind your subject and getting creative with this, this kind of stuff just opens up a new world where you, I feel like you're actually capturing that golden hour in a different way.

Toby: It's usually the people that come back, well, when I go back to the camera club, they're gonna tell me that it wasn't perfectly exposed and it wasn't. We're like, no, but this is the one you're going to want to hang on your wall. Yeah, the inverse is true as well. When you push it, three stops over and you go high-key as well.

And the opportunities it opens up outside of the golden hour, you know, allows you to photograph one hell of a lot more during your stay harsh, harsh light or, you know, cloudy days. There's all sorts of creative techniques and especially if you're on a few game drives and sometimes maybe the sightings are a little bit slow.

You need to have these in your [00:32:00] wheelhouse, don't you, to be able to keep it going.

. Okay, brilliant. And lemme just ask you one more question, going back to the sort of video side of things as well. Do you find yourself, you know, firing away, taking some photographs and then thinking about video, is that what you're doing these days?

Karolina: yes. So I, I do switch back and forth from photo and video quite a lot. And people tend to ask me on social media, how did you manage to get photo and video at the same time? but it's usually because I, I sometimes lucky and have the animal do. Something twice. so like now recently, on a trip in Kruger, I had, uh, three cheetah cubs climbing a tree right in front of us. So then I managed to get photos first and then while when I knew I had the photos and I saw the, the third cheetah going up, you know, doing kind of the same thing,

I just switched quickly to video and then I got video of it as well. So I've gotten quite good at just knowing if I've gotten the shot. And photo is always a priority, unless it's a situation that I don't think do well for photo or it's a specific type of video that I want to get that I don't have yet, or something like that, uh, [00:33:00] then I'll switch to video.

Toby: It's an important balance as well when you're with clients as well. we always say that, you know, the ability for a photo host, I know that you can do this to put your camera down, to help your guests to make sure that they're getting the shots.

on the flip side of that, if you are not taking photographs, sometimes clients can turn around and say, well, is this not good enough? What's going on?

Karolina: yes. And also I find myself, you know, if I'm looking, I always tell my guests like, I will be photographing as well. because one, you know, I, I enjoy it. But also, and also, like you say, if you're not photographing at all, they tend to think like something's wrong. you know, your excitement about something, photographing something helps the guest to also feel excited about it. But this is also Usually why I look through the camera as well is because I see different things. If I'm photographing as well, like I will, I will know approximately what settings to tell the guests and what composition to think about and so on. by looking at it with your own eyes. But I'll usually notice even further things looking through my viewfinder and photographing myself where [00:34:00] I'm like, oh, here's this compositional idea. Or, you know what, now that I'm looking through my own camera, this shatter speed was actually too fast and I so went up too high.

So, you know, looking through the viewfinder myself helps me help my guests because I'm thinking in, in camera terms, if that makes sense.

Toby: No, it does, and it's, a real skill to be able to vocalize your thought process whilst looking through the viewfinder. So yes, if you're a budding photo host and you want to do practice doing that, explaining how you're taking the shot whilst you're doing it. There we go. Right on that, we are going to take a little break. And then when we come back, we're going to have a look at the image that you chose by another photographer that you admire. So we'll be back in a second. 

 

Image 5

 
Toby: welcome back to the final part of the, pangolin podcast with my guest today, Karolina, who is joining us from the Pangolin Chobe Hotel. In between a couple of safaris that she's guiding, and at this stage of the show, we ask her to present, an image which was taken by another photographer that maybe she wishes she'd taken herself.

And as you all see from this image, [00:35:00] okay, Karolina, I have a real worry that this is now gonna set a trend. Where the last one's gonna be the, you know, the comedy image or something. There's, there's a real danger. Okay. Tell us, for all those people listening and not watching, . Describe this image for us.

Karolina: Describe this okay, so this is a photograph of an elephant pooing, zoomed in on the poo and the tail lifting. And it's beautifully lit. beautiful background. But what I love about this photograph and why I chose it is that in the poo that is falling from the elephant, there's a little marula fruit falling behind.

And I think that just tells such a story. Of elephants, and this is why I love this photograph. It's taken by a guy called Tom, who also did his, guide training at the same academy that I did mine. So that's how I know him. a really great guy who's in the Netherlands now where he actually do photo workshops and stuff in the Netherlands. But I just love this photograph and I use it very often [00:36:00] talking to guests, to show them that you can think outside of the box and get details that is not the animal's face. That tells such a story about the animal. And here, the story is that, elephants have very bad digestive systems, but they also love marula fruit. But often it just goes straight through them. And then other animals actually end up eating it from their d and that provides, other animals the chance of eating and getting nutrients from the elephant dung, which in winters, you know, you can see a lot of baboons going through elephant D and stuff.

So just tells this story about elephants without being a portrait of an elephant. I really want to take a photograph like this, but it's so difficult to know if this is gonna happen and get the timing right and all of that.

Toby: Is a lovely, lovely, you know, buttery background. I mean, it's got everything about it for a wildlife photograph, hasn't it? we always thought that we might have a, a, a competition in one of our categories in the Pangolin photo challenge called Bits of Beasts.

And you weren't allowed to take a photograph of the whole animal, [00:37:00] but you had to take a part of the animal to make it. Recognizable as being that animal

Karolina: The detail shots, I always tell my guests, get away from the, just the portrait kind of thing and, you know, go wide and include more of the environment. 'cause that's something people tend to forget as well, but also go tight and go to, you know, the details and just get an eye or just a tail or, and the elephants are fantastic for this, especially in Chobe where you can get so close to them. It's not just that basic standard portrait, which are also great, but you know, to just get out of that box a little bit.

Toby: Okay. I did mention earlier on that we had the Pangolin photo challenge.
 
Karolina is a judge on the Pangolin photo Challenge. So if you would like to enter some images, you can win a safari to go to the chobe and photograph with us. You could win. And safari just by entering an image. So I will also leave a link in the description down below and your images will be judged by Karolina and a whole host of other photographers as well.
 

Conclusion

 
Toby: Okay, it's now time for us to wrap up, but as is tradition, I now ask you the [00:38:00] question. If you were to be able to choose where your humble dwelling upon which the walls are bedecked, with these five images, where is your humble dwelling going to be?

Karolina: I have to say the Kruger National Park or in one of the private Nature reserves adjacent to, to Kruger National Park, because, uh, that's where my journey started. It's a truly special place for me. So it would have to be in, uh, somewhere next to a river, out in the middle of nowhere where there's , no one else. If I can save enough money to buy plots in the greater Kruger, but.

Toby: Well, there we go. There's always dreaming. If you keep going the way you are going, I'm sure that, that, that dream will become a reality. Karolina, thank you so much for taking time in between your safaris. To come and join us on this. I know you start again in a couple of days. We will leave links to Karolina's socials, YouTube website, everything in down below, and yeah, thank you very much for joining us and enjoy the rest of your time in Botswana.[00:39:00]

Karolina: Thank you so much for having me. This is a lot of fun.

​

Toby: Thank you for listening to episode seven of the Pangolin podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. As always, we'd love to hear your comments and feedback, so please leave them in the comments down below. And if you don't want to miss the next episode or any of the other wildlife photography videos, make sure you subscribe to the channel and master there.
 
Give us a thumbs up, please. Finally, don't forget to sign up to the Pangolin Friday focus newsletter. You can do that by heading over to pangolin photo.com, or you can scan the QR code on your screen now. I look forward to seeing you on a Pangolin photo safari soon, and all that's left for me to say is that the Pangolin podcast was hosted by me, Toby Jermyn, and produced and edited by Bella Falk.