Meet The Pro: Duade Paton

On episode 4 of the Pangolin Podcast, Toby welcomes Australian wildlife photographer and YouTube creator, Duade Paton. Duade shares his transformative journey from a career in the New South Wales Police Force to becoming a celebrated wildlife photographer with over 100,000 YouTube subscribers. 

Here is the link to the images chosen by Duade for the episode: https://pangolin.smugmug.com/SmugMug-Website/Website-Pages/Meet-the-Pro-Duade-Paton

In this episode, Duade presents five significant photographs, four of his own and one by another photographer, discussing the stories and moments behind each one. From capturing his first bird photo to winning a photo competition that took him to the sub-Antarctic, Duade's experiences are both inspiring and insightful. 

Tune in to learn about his creative process, the importance of mental health, and his passion for wildlife photography. 

Pangolin Photo Safaris
Africa's premier photo safari operator and lodge owner.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Join our growing community of wildlife photography enthusiasts by signing up for the Friday Focus newsletter which Is full of camera gear advice, photo tips, and safari specials around the world.

https://link.pangolinphoto.com/Pod-Community

We are Pangolin Wildlife Photography, based in the Chobe, Northern Botswana. When we are not making videos for our channel, we host our guests and clients from all over the world on our Wildlife Photography safaris throughout Botswana and the rest of Africa—and sometimes beyond!

Learn More about our safaris here: https://link.pangolinphoto.com/BZ-Safaris

Chapters

• 3:03 1st Image: Australian Magpie
• 11:19 2nd Image: Red Capped Plover
• 20:12 3rd Image: Takahe
• 24:04 4th Image: Black Swan
• 31:17 Inspirational Image: Australian-Pelican By Matthew Jones

Transcript

0:02

Hello and welcome to episode four of the Pangolin Podcast. I am your host, Toby Jermyn. Thank you very much for joining me. In each episode, I've invited a professional wildlife photographer to imagine themselves in a remote location, and along with their camera gear, they're allowed to bring five photographs to hang on the wall of their humble dwelling. Four of these must be their own, and the final image is one they admire by another photographer. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see the images as we talk. But for audio listeners on other platforms, there's a link in the description to a gallery. Now more than 20,000 of you watched the last episode with Federico Veronesi, and we'll be announcing the winner of the competition to win a copy of his new book soon. But thank you to everyone who's watched and commented on our first three episodes. We are delighted that you are enjoying them. Don't forget to keep putting the names of other photographers you'd like me to interview in the comments, and we'll see what we can do. On today's show. that's why I often tell people that I get it wrong. I stuff it up. I've got bird brain. That's the term that I've coined. I make just as many And I think it's important to share that. My guest today is our first from Australia and a fellow YouTuber based out of Northeastern Victoria. He's also the first guest I've managed to get on the show who was recommended by you in the comments. In 2011, he had a life-changing event that cut short his career in the New South Wales Police Force, which led him to his new career as a wildlife photographer and published author specializing in bird photography and a YouTube creator with over 100,000 subscribers and growing. He is, of course, Mr. Duade Paton, welcome to the show Duade. Well, thank you very much and thank you for such a warm and kind opening. I'm just an old bloke that like taking photos of birds, but I'm extremely happy to be here chatting to you. So, uh, Dway, where do we find you today? Uh, currently at home. As you touched on earlier, I'm in the northeast of Victoria, which is a state in Australia. If you're not aware, it's about three hours north of Melbourne. It's currently raining outside. We're in winter. It's very cold. I can see snow on the mountains, so it's, uh, a nice time to be inside. Oh, there we go. I, I too am in the Southern Hemisphere. Uh, for those of you who know, our channel will recognize the background behind me. I'm in the studio at the Pangolin Chobi Hotel, and I noticed that,, just behind you there, twa, you have a, a certain, a silver trophy. Yeah, that was a recent edition. Thank you. It's taken a while, but obviously on YouTube, once you reach certain milestones, they reward you with a silver plaque. So I reached a hundred thousand. Have you reached a hundred thousand yet? Uh, yes, we have actually. Thank you. Thank, thank you for mentioning that, Duade. There we go. It's, uh, yeah, the next one's a big one though, isn't it? Then we've got to get to a million subscribers. I think I'll be dead before that happens, but you never know. Okay. So without further ado, um, shall we start with your first image. Um, obviously we've asked you to, to give us four of your images and one by another photographer. Can you tell us a little bit about your first image? Of course, but, uh, I just wanna clarify that I did find this very interesting when you asked for four of my images that I would take to this island because instinctively I thought I'll just share my four favorite images, like my four best images then occurred to me that some of those don't necessarily have any meaning behind them. And if I'm stranded and I wanna remember and reflect on my life and my photography journey, I need images that. Relate to something important in my life and something that has led me somewhere. And this image of a magpie. It's not a very good photo. The reason for that is it's my very first photo that I took of a bird and it changed the trajectory of my life. As you touched on earlier, I had a health scare, I had a cardiac arrest when I was, um. I forget how old I was now. I think I was 31. And, uh, I was in life support and it was a very, uh, traumatic incident and event, but I survived. And the doctor suggested that I get outside and I had to learn how to walk again or just get strength to walk. And I lived nearby the bush and my wife had a camera. I've still actually got it, believe it or not. So this 40 D Canon 40 D, she owned this and We had the 70 to 200 L lands for I think for people and different things. So I was not a wildlife photographer. I had no interest in birds whatsoever. However, I just took the camera with me. I'm not sure exactly why, but I just thought it'd be interesting to photograph what I'm seeing just for a record. I was probably in auto mode and I'm just walking down the road and a magpie, so Australian magpie, it's a black and white bird, and it's a relatively large bird. It's like a corvid. And it's jumped up onto this, fence post, And I've picked up the camera, and taken a photo. And then I looked on the back of the camera and something triggered inside me. I looked at it and I went, that's pretty interesting. Like there's actually quite a bit of detail there. I was sort of enamoured by this image that I'd captured. And so after this image, I started to photograph other birds that I was seeing and it really snowballed from there. And it's hard to know exactly why Things become interesting, like how do we develop these passions? And I'm sure every one of you has that story. You have that moment where you took a photo or the moment you tried something and your world changed. And this photo for me changed everything. I, I think that is a story that I think everybody watching this can relate. I love watching clients when they're trying photography for the first time and they, they look at the back of their camera and they, their eyes pop. They're like, I took that, I created that. It's, it's a lovely, lovely thing to witness. So I, I'm really glad that you, you took the. In its truest form because that this is what this show is all about. These are the images hanging on the wall of your humble dwelling that mean something. Um, so it must have been very difficult though I mentioned earlier you were, you were in the police force, um, and a career that was at 31 must have been in its ascendancy and, and it cut short in dramatic fashion. Um, yeah, look, it, it, it was the active part of it. Actually carrying a gun was cut short, but I remained in the police for a number of years after that.. So, um, due to my cardiac arrest, I was no longer allowed to carry a gun. And obviously you need a gun to be a frontline police officer. So I ended up transitioning into a management role within the police. And I got a role in the intelligence unit and that was a really, really interesting role. So I briefed the incoming police. Um, I used to start work at five 30 in the morning and talk to the outgoing night shift and then brief the shift coming on and, uh, I did that for another. Nearly eight years, I think, before I, um, resigned from that role to follow my passions of, uh, YouTube and, and photography. So, sometimes we can't predict what life will throw at us. You're on one path, and it's like those sliding doors, moments, and, you know, if I hadn't had my cardiac arrest, I wouldn't be here talking to you. So it had a silver lining. And I'm extremely grateful that it, it happened in a way because, you know, I had no interest in birds or photography prior to this, and now that's all my life is like, it's kind of strange to me how this happened, you know? Yeah. So things happen for a reason, don't they? You'd like to think so, that's for sure. Is there a grand plan? We hope there's a grand plan. Um, so do you think, are there any skills that you had from the police force? Obviously you mentioned you were an investigator. Is there anything that's, that you, you then pull on those resources or knowledge or skills in your wildlife photography career? That's a very interesting question. I think my ability to present information is probably where it comes from. I do a lot of educational videos on my channel and a lot of people comment that they, find them useful. And part of that is 'cause I had to give presentations in front of a lot of people every day and do a lot of research and, you know, different trends and PowerPoints and different things. So. Not necessarily photography related, that's probably more YouTube . In regards to photography. Um, it's tricky to know, to be honest. I I can't pinpoint anything directly, but, if I'm being honest, one of the reasons I really enjoyed photography, it was a, it was a way to escape the police. You know, you have a lot of stress and you see a lot of things that you wish you didn't, and so you have a bit of noise. In relation to the police and with the camera and the lens, I could go out and almost like enter another world so it was very good for my mental health to be able to have a camera and a lens and just go out and not worry or think about what I was seeing at work. So, photography helped me a lot in regards to just my general wellbeing. It it is. It is very meditative and it's also a very good way of getting some exercise. So, I mean, I can imagine that anyone watching this is probably a photographer already, but if, if we happen to have anybody here who has stumbled onto this podcast who's thinking of getting into wildlife photography, it's not just the images, you do get out, you're in the fresh air and it's, uh, a very accessible hobby for both men and women. No, totally agree. I must admit I took my wife out in the beginning, but she got sick of sitting in the car for hours, so it wasn't for her. But, uh, I've definitely met plenty of, uh, males and females and a lot of young people too. I'm always excited when I see young people out with a camera, that's for sure. Yeah, no, it's lovely. you've obviously talked about mental health. Are you a, uh, a mental health advocate in any form? And not officially, uh, but I do mention it a few times in a few of my videos that, um, I think everybody out there, has a struggle or is going through something, and photography for me is just an escape, I suppose. You get that flow state. I think everybody recognizes what it is. It's when time passes and you don't realize where it's gone. When I'm looking through a camera, it's like my own personal wildlife documentary. I'm looking through this camera and that gives me so much joy that that final result isn't that important to me. I do like taking nice photos, but the act of taking photos gives me this amazing feeling. And like you say, being out in the field and watching wildlife is, it's very hard to, um, explain if you haven't done it, as I mentioned, and I highly suggest anyone that hasn't to try it. I'm curious, do you get the same thing with your camera? It's like this weird relationship I have with it. Well, let, let's, let's ask the viewers. Can you relate, you know, let us, let us know in the comments down below. I think, you know, photography at the same time can be quite insular, but it's also very sociable. I mean, you've mentioned in your videos that you spend a lot of time with other people going out and photographing as a group and, and feeding off each other as well. a hundred percent. I think a shared experience is a good one and, I wouldn't be here or be the photographer I am without the mentors that I've had the pleasure of learning from. So, other people have been extremely important in my journey and I highly encourage other people to join clubs or find other people to go out with. Well, perfect. Well, on that note, should we move on to the second image please? So the second image is of a little red cap plover, which is a small plover. And if you look closely under the wing of that bird is a baby . That is a male with the red cap, and he is obviously looking after the young one. And it's sort of in some seaweed on the beach. And this image is extremely important to me because a, I took it with a dear friend of mine who's no longer with us, and uh, that image actually led me to visiting the sub Antarctic. So when I started, I had the 70 to 200, which was my very first lens. And I had the 40 DI then I. Upgraded to the original Canon 70 and I bought the 405.6, which is this lens here, an incredible lens. So that was my combo for some time, and I wanted to learn how to take nice photos, so I knew my photos were bad. and I thought, how am I gonna improve my photos? I need to learn from somebody. So I, I. Joined a forum back in the days before Facebook groups and there was a forum called Feathers and Photos, which is very apt. It was a bird photography forum in Australia. I joined that and I came across someone who lived half an hour away from me. So I sent an email or a message saying, oh look, I'm new to bird photography. I really wanna learn. Would you be willing to let me tag along and come with you? And that was Matthew Jones, who was an exceptional photographer. so he was very kind and I met up with him and another fellow photographer, Hyder Cock. And so we would go out at every opportunity. And one of those opportunities led us to a place called Shoal Heads, which is a couple of hours south of Sydney. It's a tidal mud flat. We get some waders that come there. There was And we were walking across the beach. And Matt noticed outta the corner of his eye, he noticed this little red cap plover. It's quite camouflaged in the seaweed and we didn't even realize it had a chick at this point, and we were some distance away. So I'm always conscious of trying not to disturb the wildlife. And uh, I sort of laid down on the sand. Uh, I've got this four, 5.6. I'm laying down, bending my neck, obviously looking through the viewfinder. Then we noticed that it had a chick under its arm and we rattled off a few shots and then sort of went on our way. I didn't really realize what I'd captured until I got home. And that's often the case, isn't it? But when I looked at it, I was very, very happy 'cause you've got the detail and the adult male bird, you've got the detail in the chick. And I just like that the wing was slightly up or over the young bird and the adult, but the males almost looks like it's looking down at its young chick. And it was just that intimacy that, really sparked it for me. And we've got an organization in Australia called Bird Life who are our, um, organization that care for birds and not-for-profit. And they ran a bird photography competition. And I entered this image in that competition. And unbelievably, I don't know how it happened, but I was very fortunate to win that competition with this image. And the prize for that was a trip to the sub Antarctic with Heritage Expeditions to see penguins and albatross. So when I look at this image, I think of my dear friend Matt. I think of when I started with my 405.6 and how much fun I was having. And then of course, I remember the elation of, of winning that competition and having that amazing trip. I think it's a really lovely endearing image. The interrelation between parent and and child is always endearing. I think that the shallow depth of field is very cool. And do you go back there often? To take photographs? I didn't mention it, but I did live at, at this location for a number of years. So when I was in the police, I lived in New South Wales, which is obviously another state in Australia, and when I lived there, uh, I, I've lost count. I may have been there a hundred times, 50 to a hundred times, easily over, um, the years that I was there. Unfortunately, I've moved about six hours drive inland, so I don't get back there, unfortunately. But if you ever visit Australia and you're in Sydney, it's well worth a two hour drive to hit down to sho heads and, um, wander the mudflats and look for these beautiful little birds. I will just quickly mention that this photo was captured on a seven D and 405.6. We often get infatuated with the latest gear and the best gear, but I have a lot of really nice images that were captured on some of the older gear, which is more affordable now. So I know wildlife photography is extremely expensive for the good gear, but you can get nice shots with the more affordable gear. And I noticed you shoot predominantly Canon, but you also have Olympus gear. Nikon or Nikon gear for our American viewers. We always say that the best camera is the one in your hand. Agreed. Yeah, totally. I, I don't own Nick on, um, but I have used theirs. I own Olympus, Sony, and Canon, but predominantly Canon. But we've got to a point now where image quality isn't really progressing all that much.'cause they're all so good, aren't they? Any brand I say is more than capable of capturing wonderful images, and I do get slightly annoyed by certain brand loyalties where people criticize other brands. I think we should just be happy with what we have and all enjoy our photography and be happy. We've got a choice. So when you are going out and you are heading out, which is the first camera and lens your mind goes to. What's the one that's at the front of your, your, your camera repository. Uh, it's a very good question if I'm just heading out and it's just sort of a walkabout, a bit of a, you know, scouting image. I recently went out just to photograph some, swallows at a local manmade lake and I just took my 200 800, my Canon 200 800 and my Cannon R five mark two, just 'cause it's flexible, It's not too heavy for me and I like the reach and that's sort of just in the car kit, if that makes sense. If I'm going on a shoot and I want the very best image quality, I take out my big 500 F four and 1.4 converter. But if I'm being completely honest, I'm using that. Less and less. I'm more going to my 100 to 500 or 200, 800. I'm Sony. I like the 200 to 600, uh, Olympus. I don't mind the 300 prime, which works very well. And even when I shoot Nick on there, 600, six three is absolutely incredible. For me. It comes down to fun. Now, more than anything, it's like what gear can I have fun with and just enjoy myself? And that's what I often reach for. I must say, I, I watched one of your videos recently and you are working on your own filming, presenting, filming, presenting back and forth, and I really enjoyed the video where you, uh, set up the, I think you're using a dj I Osmo, to film yourself wandering off in search of a subject, but then also included the fact that you had to walk back and retrieve the camera. It's, um, It's lovely. I think the, the behind the scenes thing, I think that's why people relate to your content so much. There's a little bit of humor, there's a little bit of, there's certainly a bit of self deprecation and I think the rule is we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously in these things and have a bit of fun with it. Oh, a hundred percent. I think we need to share those elements and that's why I often tell people that I get it wrong. I stuff it up. I've got bird brain. That's the term that I've coined. I make just as many And I think it's important to share that. So I don't want people that are starting out in photography looking at Instagram or any of these things and seeing these amazing photos and thinking, well, I'm never gonna capture those. Most people only share their very best stuff. You never see all the stuff that ends up in the rubbish bin. And , I would prefer to show the reality of it and the, and how real it is. And hopefully people will get encouraged by that so that they know that they're not alone. We, we should, maybe we should advocate for a, an international messed up photograph day where everybody only, they only post the missed shots or the ones that were so nearly there. But then weren't, and then Yeah, a I've often thought you could create a book of perches, you know, where they've got a perch, but no bird. It's like, I've got this amazing perch. Where, where's the bird gone? exactly. Brilliant. Okay, so, um, before we move on to image three, we are just gonna take a, a quick break and when we come back we are going to look at your next image. welcome back to the Pangolin podcast with B Toby Jerrmyn and my guest today, Duade Peyton. We are now moving on to image number three outta five. So, Duade, tell us a little bit about, uh, this image and why you chose it. All right, if nobody had picked it up yet. My, I'm actually from New Zealand, so if I say fish and chops you'll definitely pick it up. I moved to Australia when I was 23, so I grew up in New Zealand and all my formative years were there and obviously I have a connection to there. So I do visit New Zealand from time to time. My family is still there and it just so happens New Zealand has a lot of amazing bird life. They have a lot of endemic species that aren't found anywhere else. And because New Zealand didn't really have any predators. They have a lot of flightless birds like the kiwi and other things. One such bird was called a tahe and they're very similar to a purple swamphen that you've probably seen. A swamphen is a lot smaller. This is almost twice or three times the size of your standard swamphen. And they're a very unique species. But 'cause they're flightless, when, STOs and different things came to New Zealand, they killed a lot of these birds and they were actually listed. As being extinct. So they thought there was none left. But thankfully somebody found a very small population, I believe in the, the remote areas of the south island of New Zealand, and they've put in place a program to obviously save these birds and breed them. And New Zealand's done a wonderful job at creating island sanctuaries. And one such reserve is called T Martini Island, which is out of Auckland and New Zealand. And I went there with my friend Matt and friend Hein, I think in 2015 or around there. You can only get there by boat but it's quite a unique story 'cause this island was a sheep farm originally. And the government 30, 40 years ago bought this island with a plan of revegetating it and introducing all of New Zealand's native wildlife to it. One of them being the tahe. So we went to this island and I think we stayed there for maybe three days. When I got off this boat and I walked onto this island, I was transported in time. It was like I went back to how New Zealand would've been before Europeans or the Maori arrived and there was just so many birds. It was absolutely incredible And I was. Enamored by it and so joyful. And we spent wonderful time there that one of the key species was this. And we got up relatively early just as the sun was coming up. And there was a bird that was standing and it was receiving some early morning sun, but behind the bird was still in shadow. So I've got down nice and low and I've exposed for the, so that the bird was exposed correctly. But by doing that, the background's gone very dark, and it's created this very unique image where we've got this bird that's capturing the sunlight. It's full of detail. And I love the colors that you see on the shoulder of this bird. And I do actually have a photo of three of us capturing it, and you can see there's actually a bird behind us watching us as we've photographing this bird. It's quite, it's quite funny to see. But that one reminds me of my New Zealand heritage, it reminds me of the danger that humans pose to wildlife, that we've created a lot of, we've made a lot of, um, species extinct, but we're also doing a lot to bring them back. and the conservation is important to me, and the fact that this bird has been saved from extinction and it's on these islands is a testament to New Zealand and the people there and the wonderful work they're doing. It's a really lovely image and I love the sound of this island. This sounds like New Zealand's Jurassic Park. Or something is a hundred percent. And, uh, it's, it's not that far. I think, I can't remember how long the boat ride was, maybe an hour, 45 minutes. So if you're in New Zealand, definitely worth a day trip there., Okay, so we have the endangered species. Is there a bird somewhere in the world that would be the big one? The one you want to see in photograph? Where is it and what is it? Oh, you've got so many good questions. It's hard to Have all the answers for them. I love waders and so in my mind I would love to go to Alaska and photograph the godwits and the plovers and breeding plumage. But Alaska to me is, it's my romantic notion that I'd love to get there one day. Probably wouldn't be all that good with mosquitoes and things, but the wildlife to sort of photograph these pls on the tundra, uh, would be an experience I wouldn't forget. I, I've never been to Alaska, so when, when you go let me know, I'll come and meet you. There it is. Sort of from where we are and where you are, it seems like a sensible, sensible midpoint for us to That's right. Yeah. A lot colder than, uh, Australia and Africa. I suggest, okay. Well then I think we need to move on to the fourth image. This is one of those images where you have to really look, uh, perhaps it's best if you describe this to the viewers. Yeah, so the image is of a black swan. People are probably familiar with that bird. I think you've got 'em introduced. In England, but the black swan is endemic to Australia, and this bird is relatively common. The reason I've picked this image is that when I first started with photography, I used to have my big prime lens, and I used to take an image and fill the frame. So I would take a bird, and as long as the bird was massive in the frame, I was happy. And I soon realized that that was missing a very critical component of an image, and that is habitat and story or something unique. So over the years, my. Photography has transitioned to being a lot more creative and trying to look at shapes and trying to use light and just trying to capture something that's unique and that appeals to me. So over the last few years, I've definitely been getting a lot more arty and a couple of my mates have, uh, made a little bit of fun of me saying, um, you know, what are you up to? Sort of thing. But it's just something that interests me. And so what I do now is I'm always conscious of the light and I'm always conscious of what can I do? And I happen to be using the, sorry, my cat has just I know I was, I was gonna say, this is, this is the first interview where you've been photo, you've been upstaged by a cat. So hopefully it doesn't annoy me too much.. So basically what happens is on YouTube we get the ability to. Use gear. And Nick on reached out to me and they said, would you be interested in using the Z five two? And they sent me the kit lens, which I think was a 24 to 200, uh, lens. And 200 millimeters, as you know, is rather short for is rather There you go. You can't write this stuff. I might this cat No, this is great. So would you, would you mind introducing us to your cat please Duade Uh, this is a ragdoll. Uh, and this is Coco, Okay. This is Coco. I presume Coco is a, is a big fan of birds as well, but maybe for different reasons. Yeah, thankfully it's indoors only, so she can just look out the window and, and buy those, uh, bird species. But, sorry. So Nickon sent me, a 200 millimeter lens, which is a little bit short for wildlife, so you need to get creative. And the swan came up to me and I thought it would be interesting if I actually shot down. Since I've got this tiny lens that's got a very short minimum focus distance, which allows you to get, these different angles. So that's exactly what I did. I just held the camera up, focused and took a photo, and the bird was actually so close that I've actually chopped off some of the bill, which is often what I don't like to do. But, 'cause the light was side lit, you can see that half of the bird is in the light. And we can see that red eye. That red eye is what makes it everything.'cause you're drawn to the red eye of this bird and it's just a very unique image.'cause as you said, it takes you a second to identify what you're looking at. And I think that's the key with a photograph. You often want someone to stare at it and then go, oh, what is this?. It wasn't something that I planned, it think that's key with wildlife photography is having the ability to adapt. Of course, we go out looking for different species, and of course we're looking at backgrounds and we're thinking about our composition, but sometimes I encourage people just to go, what if? What if I try a shorter lens? What if I shoot into the light? What if I shoot from this angle? Breaking the rules sometimes will lead you to capturing images that you never thought were possible. And that's why this image works. Hopefully. I think it's a fantastic image and the next question I had for you is you, do you underexpose by a certain amount in this shot? Was it you really pushing it under to get this Uh, yes, uh, I was under exposing it a little bit and some creative editing. So in the raw file you can kind of see the right hand side, and I have purposely darkened that. So I guess that's another element of digital photography is we do have that final step, that creative element in the digital. Dark room I guess you could call it. But the actual image itself l lent it to this, I believe anyway. This is when you can get these dynamic, interesting images that have these, um, shattered dark areas and bright areas. Oh, that, that's what we always encourage people, you know, get your safety shots and then, then start playing. Because more often than not, this veers more towards the artistic side of photography. It's the kind of image that you would probably hang on your wall. And one thing I must say about your channel, which I really enjoy, is you are very giving and honest about the process where you say, this is the photograph I took, this is the original, this is in, in post-production. Which I think is probably a key to your success, wouldn't you say? Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I get a lot of feedback. People love to see the raw image and the final image, so they know my thought process. They can think, okay, that's how I would've done it.'Cause often we see an edited image, we don't necessarily know how we got to that point. So the raw file can often look quite different. And I don't want people taking raw files and going, oh, mine doesn't look like that. How have they done that? I'd much rather people just be honest and, you know, with the advance with ai now, you know, we need to be honest about what we're doing and let people know how we've edited images so, yeah, it's definitely important to me and I'm more than happy to share before and after and even share raw files for people to play for themselves. We also have comments as well. We are first and foremost, you know, entertainers and educators. Um, and that's why people I hope, relate to both of our channels. I don't believe we should, uh, we should keep these things to ourselves. Everybody started somewhere. It's that peer-to-peer learning, isn't it? Yeah, a hundred percent. I wouldn't be here without my mentors, let's put it that way. So, I'm very, very lucky. I do have one story about the black swan, if you're interested to hear it. That's very unique about them. yeah, sure, please. Okay. So if anyone's not aware, for some odd reason, there's a disparity in the male and female sex ratio of the species. There's way more males than females, and I dunno why that is. But over time what has happened is males now can form lifelong bonds with one another. Unfortunately, they can't breed 'cause they're two males. What they do is one of the male actually takes a female. Then she lays the egg and then the two males drive the female off the nest and they sit on the egg and raise the young. So I'm not sure exactly why that's happened, but it's an interesting story anyway, just to show that, you know, nature sometimes has a very odd way of doing things and it's, uh, something that people possibly didn't know about that species. I didn't, I did. Well, there we go. Every day is, every day is an opportunity for learning. So there we go. And on that bombshell, I think we're gonna take a break and when we come back, you're going to share the image that you've chosen that was taken by another photographer. So we'll see you in a minute. okay. Welcome back to the final part of the PanIN podcast of me, Toby Jermyn, and my guest today, Dway Peyton and his adorable cat, who is making many, many a cameo appearance in this video. Okay, Dway this, uh, part of the premise of the podcast is to ask you to, uh, choose an image taken by another photographer, uh, that may perhaps you wish you'd taken or has a special meaning for you. So tell us about this image. Uh, yes. This image is of four Australian Pelicans and Australian pelicans are very iconic species here in Australia. This is four pelicans sort of floating through the water and it's in glorious light, and it's an image that when I saw it for the first time, I was just like, that image is incredible. And it's one that is very, very important to me.'cause it was taken by my friend Matt, who I've mentioned a number of times, and unfortunately he passed a number of years ago. So the reason I've chosen this image is, A, I love the image, and B, it's a reminder of the friendship that we shared and the amazing images that he captured. And I'll take you back in time, I guess, is how I met Matt. I mentioned he was very. Kind and he allowed me to tag along with him. Matt was, an ecologist, so he had an incredible experience, an array of knowledge that is, was so good for me. If I had a question about any bird, about any plant or anything, he had the answer. And we would go out to Chauvin Heads and these other places, we'd get up early, we'd meet each other there, he had his wetsuit, and we'd meet up and we'd go out and we'd have these amazing sessions. And what always stood out to me as we were photographing in the same location. With the same birds yet for some reason, he always captured unique, interesting images. It was as if he was seeing something that I couldn't see myself, and I remember thinking at the beginning, how's he doing this? Like he's lining up birds. He's just seeing things and I think I. Do that much better now. But at the beginning I didn't quite understand how he was getting these images when we were both in roughly the same spot. after these sessions, one of our favorite things to do was we would go to a like local coffee shop and we would just talk about the session, we'd talk about photography, we'd talk about life, and we formed this incredible friendship. And we went out so many times to all these different places laying in the mud. And one of his favorite places to go was Lake Wallum Bulla, which is this amazing wetland. Few hours south of Sydney and you can get eye level with these birds, and it creates this intimate angle as you can see in this image that he's eye level. We've got a beautiful reflection. There's obviously no wind, which is extremely important for reflections. And there's something unique about this image 'cause of the shapes.'cause you've got multiple birds, and then we've got birds layered or stacked behind.. and this is one I'd be looking at all the time if I was on this island. And it would bring me so many memories and it would make me smile and just do know if I could go back and experience it all again, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It is, it's a really, really lovely image. I think that my favorite part about it, which keeps you engaged in there, is the two bills of the two front pelicans are not quite symmetrical, and that makes it more interesting. I think if they were symmetrical, it was, I always call it, you know, having that imperfection makes it perfect. I know it's not an imperfection, but you know what I mean. I love it. It's one of those images where it's such a cool reflection. You could turn it vertically and you hang it up and you would look at it and be, okay. I, I get it. I mean, it's what a beautiful Still morning. That must have been glorious. Yeah, that location is, is well known for that. So you've got the ocean on one side, so you've got waves rolling in and then you have this more freshwater sort of lake I guess, and they're separated, so it's quite calm. If there's no wind, you get there early. and I used to go very early. Funny story. I remember going there, I think it was New Year's Day, so. It was, uh, I went, got up at like five o'clock in the morning and drove out to this location and I got there. It was still dark. And as I'm leaving my car walking down the beach, all these drunk revelers, all these young drunks from the night before wandering back up the path after their night of drinking and I'm heading down to photograph birds. It was just a funny moment that, you know, your, your different, uh, priorities. I suppose. I'm there to photograph birds and they were out having a, having a good time. But yeah, that's key is to early bird catches the worm, I suppose. And with wildlife, sometimes those early mornings or late evenings are the best times to capture images. That's a lovely way to, to, to end. Although I do have to ask you the, the all important question which I asked everybody. Obviously we have your, your dwelling, it doesn't necessarily have to be on an island, it just has to be a remote location. where is that place? Where is your humble dwelling going to be? I'm gonna let you choose where you want to be marooned. well, I think I've already mentioned it. Erritory, Martin Island in New Zealand. I think that is a stunning location. Beautiful views, amazing birds. That would be where this would be. Fantastic. Um, Duade, thank you very much for being on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. Absolutely my pleasure as well and thank you for inviting me. Thank you to everyone who suggested. I look forward to seeing the future people that jump on and yeah, if you get out and about, just enjoy yourself. If you ha are not doing wildlife photography, pick up a camera. Doesn't matter what camera you have, you never know. You might get as addicted as I am, so good luck There we go. Sliding doors. Sliding doors. Moment. Maybe this is, maybe this is a sliding doors moment for somebody watching. Who knows. Who knows? Great. Thank you very much thank you very much for listening to episode four of the Pangolin Podcast. We hope that you enjoyed it. Also, thank you very much for the brilliant suggestions on who else to interview. We've already got some fantastic photographers lined up, including Will Burrow Lucas, Steve Perry, Hannah Lochner, mark Coine, Troy Anfield, and of course, all the other Pangolin photo hosts. When. Track them down between their safaris that they're hosting. Um, please keep those names coming. Let's see what we can do. If you don't want to miss them when they're posted, make sure you subscribe to the channel. And while you're there, please give us a thumbs up. Leave a comment, write a review. Your feedback means a great deal to us, and it helps us to continue to improve and grow the channel.. Finally, don't forget to sign up to the Pangolin Photo Safaris Friday Focus newsletter. You can do that by heading over to pangolin photo.com, or you can scan the QR code on your screen now. I look forward to seeing you all on a Pangolin photo safari soon, and all that's left me to do is say that the Pangolin podcast was hosted by me, Toby German, and produced and edited by Bella F. Thank you for watching.